Edius X editing 5K H.265 footage from the GoPro Hero9 Black

[Liverpool TV]

Here's Edius X editing 5K footage from GoPro's latest Hero9 Black camera. It's worth noting that many post applications have issues editing GoPro H.265 footage and that's at lower resolutions.

https://youtu.be/JxIjTdgUaFc

[ziggyzag]

I've avoided GoPros for quite some time but have been forced to use them for a new project, but I'm running into playback issues. Hopefully with your experience you might be able to help...

I'm mixing 25/50fps 4K & 5K GoPro 8 & 9 footage in with 25/50fps 4K from other sources so my project is set to 3840 x 2160 P, 25fps, 10-bit
Edius X WG
PC spec is Intel i7-8700K with 32GB of RAM.
Buffer size 8GB/10 frames.
When playing a 5K GoPro 9 clip on the timeline, the CPU is at about 35% and memory around 55% but I cannot fill the buffer even using a clip straight out of the camera with the timeline playback at 1/16 quality.
Any idea why I'm having this problem?
Thanks
John

[Geoff_C]

Large split clips 4Gb+. When joined within Edius, any audio glitch at join point? . Have heard of problems with Vegas18 & resolve.
Thanks.

[Ron Evans]

I am beginning to think there is something really wrong with how both EDIUS 9 and EDIUS X are set up on my PC after watching these and comments from Paul. For me EDIUS X will not play GoPro 5K h265 video at all even at 1/16 preview. I downloaded a GoPro 5K video h265 29.97P to try. It plays with no problems in Resolve and with setting to Best/Auto in Vegas 18. Edius will play UHD h265 30P HLG from the GH5 filling the buffer ( 129 ) how do you get the buffer so low at 15 Dave ? Even holding shift to let buffer fill it immediately reduces to 1 once it starts to play. Are you using an Intel QS ?

[Liverpool TV]

John.

Don't worry about your buffer not filling up, it doesn't have to. Technically speaking, as long as the buffer can stay at least one frame ahead of what the timeline requires to maintain real-time then you are in real-time. Also. Let's assume you have a large buffer set, then depending on the strain on the CPU and GPU you may never see the buffer fill. This is because you may simply be on the cusp with processing and once your buffer reaches so many rendered frames, there may simply be no more CPU overhead to top up the buffer as the CPU may well be on the edge of being able to handle real-time. This sounds like what you are seeing.

Also, setting the buffer higher will not make any difference to your edit if you are already beyond real-time ability. Allocating a larger buffer just means you are 'potentially' able to render more frames into the buffer (CPU permitting), more frames than you are likely to need. In rare instances where your timeline may massively vary, then having the buffer space to 'look ahead' or 'read ahead' may well get you over some slight bumps. But once again, as soon as you exceed the render ability of your system, no amount of buffer can compensate for that, the buffer will deplete and you will lose real-time.

Plus, allocating more frames before playback is allowed will cause latency issues. There's no point building up a large buffer and applying a higher frame count before the play-head starts, if you have an unresponsive time-line.

You may hear something different about having a large buffer etc. If that's the case, I'd also ask for a practical example of where messing with the buffer is going to seriously help you.

Just remember. The video buffer isn't a silver bullet, if your system is incapable of real-time, even if you've changed the playback render resolution to help, you will definitely deplete the buffer and lose real-time and this will happen very quickly.

There's a video below that I've made for a different post, it's wordy and boring but I do talk about the buffer in it, you may want to give it a watch as it's showing and explaining practical issues.


Ron.

My buffer settings are as Edius sets them on install. I'd assume the lower numbers are because the buffer is static and the higher resolution an frame rate of a project require more memory per frame so therefore a lower amount of pre-rendered/buffered frames. Even if the buffer is dynamic or does change its base amount on a per resolution/frame rate, what you are seeing is what Edius is doing on its own. As I've mentioned above to John, there's no real practical reason to increase the buffer. That boring video response I done for Anton, below, goes into the reasoning why. A large buffer will only help in a very limited scenario and but even then there can be drawbacks. The only thing that makes any proper difference is CPU and GPU, this is why I go on like a broken record about GPU optimisation, even just GPU decoding of certain codecs would be a massive help.

Edius is still very good with its YUV processing/buffer etc and does seem to utilise available resources quite well for that (CPU). This is why the likes of Tim still has a great time, because he's using HQX. Even before we get anywhere near GPU acceleration for YUV processing of the edit, FX etc. If we could just simply use powerful GPUs to quickly decode awkward codecs (H.264/5) straight into Edius' YUV buffer/processing space, it's likely we would see HQX like performance, maybe not exactly the same but a better improvement over what we see right now. This would also lessen the types of buffer issues in general that's been spoken about here.

BTW. A few posts back of mine someone from GV incorrectly questioned my understanding of Edius' buffer and YUV system. If anyone from GV thinks that what I'm talking about here is incorrect, then please join in and apply corrections if/where necessary. Or better still. I think it would be great if someone from GV joined in anyway and contributed toward some explanations to help all those who are interested in such things. There's nothing better than hearing things coming straight from the horses mouth.

https://youtu.be/fsAYQP240xE

[createmedia]

I can't play H265 UHD at all without QS on Xeons in Edius and the resolution setting makes no difference

Mike

[Ron Evans]

To me buffer size will allow the timeline to keep playing over sections that it cannot do in realtime and useful for edited project with effects and different source files. For a single file with no cuts or effects I agree it makes little difference if the CPU can maintain buffer. In my case it cannot at all. The CPU is unable to decode and display. However I am not sure that in this case Vegas actually uses the GPU it is just the CPU that is doing the decode and the GPU has the task of display and processing. In the case of Resolve the GPU does decode and displays easily. CPU was at 7% and GPU at 26% for that 5K GoPro file I downloaded that EDIUS would not play at all. Of course the free version of Resolve would not do this as decode is only in the Studio paid version. Which may account for some internet comments about Resolve having difficulties with GoPro files.
Dave you didn't say what system you were using for that test. Was it in fact an Intel with QS ?

[Liverpool TV]

To me buffer size will allow the timeline to keep playing over sections that it cannot do in realtime and useful for edited project with effects and different source files. For a single file with no cuts or effects I agree it makes little difference if the CPU can maintain buffer. In my case it cannot at all. The CPU is unable to decode and display. However I am not sure that in this case Vegas actually uses the GPU it is just the CPU that is doing the decode and the GPU has the task of display and processing. In the case of Resolve the GPU does decode and displays easily. CPU was at 7% and GPU at 26% for that 5K GoPro file I downloaded that EDIUS would not play at all. Of course the free version of Resolve would not do this as decode is only in the Studio paid version. Which may account for some internet comments about Resolve having difficulties with GoPro files.
Dave you didn't say what system you were using for that test. Was it in fact an Intel with QS ?

Yes QS on a 9900K.

[ziggyzag]

Maybe I should have clarified that despite trying many combinations of buffer size and frame buffer I can not get real time playback of these GoPro files, even at 1/16. That's my underlying problem. I'm not bothered about what the buffer's doing, it was just an observation based on the issue I'm having.
My CPU supports QS but I'm using an Nvidia GTX 1080 for my monitors, so am I right in thinking that effectively disables QS?
Is QS the problem anyway?
I just don't know what else to try in order to get real time playback. Sure, I can convert all the files to HQ/HQX before I start, but every project I'm on at the moment has quite a lot of GoPro footage in it, so it's a real time waster for me.

[BernH]

Maybe I should have clarified that despite trying many combinations of buffer size and frame buffer I can not get real time playback of these GoPro files, even at 1/16. That's my underlying problem. I'm not bothered about what the buffer's doing, it was just an observation based on the issue I'm having.
My CPU supports QS but I'm using an Nvidia GTX 1080 for my monitors, so am I right in thinking that effectively disables QS?
Is QS the problem anyway?
I just don't know what else to try in order to get real time playback. Sure, I can convert all the files to HQ/HQX before I start, but every project I'm on at the moment has quite a lot of GoPro footage in it, so it's a real time waster for me.

If you don't have a monitor hooked up to your intel GPU then quicksync is disabled. It also tends to not work well with certain driver versions. It is often best to use it with the drivers that came with your motherboard. If your CPU is not a 6th gen or newer, it will not really help with H265. You also need to enable the hardware decode setting in Edius.

You will see from my signature that I have both an nvidia and Intel GPU, with a monitor hooked up to each one so that I can use quicksync and nvidia GPU's and get the features offered by both of them, even if they are a bit old by today's standards.

[ziggyzag]

If you don't have a monitor hooked up to your intel GPU then quicksync is disabled. It also tends to not work well with certain driver versions. It is often best to use it with the drivers that came with your motherboard. If your CPU is not a 6th gen or newer, it will not really help with H265. You also need to enable the hardware decode setting in Edius.

You will see from my signature that I have both an nvidia and Intel GPU, with a monitor hooked up to each one so that I can use quicksync and nvidia GPU's and get the features offered by both of them, even if they are a bit old by today's standards.

I've got 3 monitors being driven from my GT1080. Could I swap my main monitor from the GT1080 to the motherboard's DVI/Displayport and still be able to span my desktop across the three monitors and then get QS working?

[BernH]

I've got 3 monitors being driven from my GT1080. Could I swap my main monitor from the GT1080 to the motherboard's DVI/Displayport and still be able to span my desktop across the three monitors and then get QS working?

Yes, you only need one monitor on the intel to get it working. I used to run 3 monitors for a little while when I switched to Edius and had smaller ones. Windows will span all monitors. It doesn't need to be your mail monitor usually, although there have been a few quirky bioses that needed it to be the main. I run my second display off the intel currently and when I was running 3 monitors it was my third one I had on the intel.

[ziggyzag]

Yes, you only need one monitor on the intel to get it working. I used to run 3 monitors for a little while when I switched to Edius and had smaller ones. Windows will span all monitors. It doesn't need to be your mail monitor usually, although there have been a few quirky bioses that needed it to be the main. I run my second display off the intel currently and when I was running 3 monitors it was my third one I had on the intel.

Great thanks, I'll try that.

[Ron Evans]

You actually do not need to take the image from the motherboard as long as it is plugged into one of the ports on the monitor. It will then get sensed by the motherboard and QS will work. For a while I ran with one monitor connected this way with the active feed from a 1080Ti on DVI input and VGA from the motherboard.

[ziggyzag]

I've connected my 3rd monitor to the motherboard HDMI out instead of the Nvidia card now and that's kicked the Intel graphics support into life and has made things a bit better.
I can now play 5K H.265 GoPro footage in 1/4 resolution in real time, so that's good enough at least for me to hear the audio properly and arrange the clips, so I think that's a good solution for now.
Thanks for the suggestions.