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  • 25p or 50p

    Dear friends....I mostly edit weddings...but there is a bit of confusion concerning the camera operators on what frame rate they should record.
    We deliver on usb stick, keep in mind that here most of the tv would not play 50p on a usb. I dont know if there is something wrong with my exports. Some latest tv would play them but most of them not.
    So I export 25p and everything is ok.
    For slow motion they record from the camera it self so the footage I get is already in slow motion, because in 25p I can not reduce speed because it looks BAD !!!
    So what would you suggest concerning the frame rate? Should I tell them to continue record on 25p? Some records on 50p and then I export in 25p but I am not sure if we are loosing in quality.
    Any advise ?
    Thanks
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  • #2
    record in 50p.... you can slow mo it the footage.
    also u can convert the footage to 25p.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by ulyssesvideo View Post
      record in 50p.... you can slow mo it and u can convert it to 25p.
      Without loosing quality or strange issues of the people in video that move or dance?
      I5 4690 CPU
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      2X2TB WD CAVIAR GREEN (BACKUP)
      1 OCZ SSD 128GB
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      • #4
        Originally posted by George Glou View Post
        Dear friends....I mostly edit weddings...but there is a bit of confusion concerning the camera operators on what frame rate they should record.
        We deliver on usb stick, keep in mind that here most of the tv would not play 50p on a usb. I dont know if there is something wrong with my exports. Some latest tv would play them but most of them not.
        So I export 25p and everything is ok.
        For slow motion they record from the camera it self so the footage I get is already in slow motion, because in 25p I can not reduce speed because it looks BAD !!!
        So what would you suggest concerning the frame rate? Should I tell them to continue record on 25p? Some records on 50p and then I export in 25p but I am not sure if we are loosing in quality.
        Any advise ?
        Thanks
        25p is 25 frames per second, 50p is 50 frames per second (twice the framerate) more frames per second just means a bigger file because it has more samples taken per second, not a higher quality.

        50p is easily turned into 25p as you have been doing, by essentially just displaying every 2nd frame, or if it is played back at 25p without dropping every second frame you will get a 50% slow motion without actually having deal with the slow motion you have experienced with 25p. You are not loosing quality, just loosing half of the temporal samples.

        The reason many TVs will not play back the 50p footage is that 50p is not an original PAL framerate and most TV will not handle it unless they are very new.

        My recommendation, if storage space and ability to edit the files is not a factor, is to shoot at 50p because you have the ability to do slow motion with any footage then, instead of just planned shots, and with 50p, you can also use that as a source for 25i if you need to, without having to do away with the temporal motion in the interlaced fields.
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        • #5
          Thank you both very much !!!
          I5 4690 CPU
          MOTHERBORAD GIGABYTE GA-Z97-HD3
          RAM 8GB [email protected]
          AMD RADEON HD 6800
          2X2TB WD CAVIAR BLACK (RAID 1)
          2X2TB WD CAVIAR GREEN (BACKUP)
          1 OCZ SSD 128GB
          Windows 7
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          • #6
            Originally posted by BernH View Post

            25p is 25 frames per second, 50p is 50 frames per second (twice the framerate) more frames per second just means a bigger file because it has more samples taken per second, not a higher quality.
            Granted, if the camera is for the most part motionless and there isn't a lot of movement being captured, 25/30p would be fine. However, I consider motion a big part of the overall image quality. When using 25/30p vs 50/60p in motion shots, IMHO 50/60p produces better imagery. The more samples during moments of motion, the better the image. The motion would either be from the events captured by the camera or even the motion added to the scene from the camera movement.
            You can always go to 25/30p or 25/50/59.94i from 50/60p.


            You have discovered that there is no universal USB playback requirement. I will say though, newer sets will play high frame rates using H.265.
            You may have to make two master files, one 50p and one 25p.

            Last edited by Jerry; 07-27-2020, 02:44 PM.
            Jerry
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            • #7
              George. If delivering wedding video on a USB stick in PAL land I have never had a failure with 1280x720P.mp4 50p. Let the TV upscale to 1920x1080i.
              Starting material can be 3840x2160 50p, 1920x1080 50p or 1280x720 50p. If your project settings at set up correctlty then Settings> project settings will allow you to switch freely should you so wish. I now start from 3840x2160 50p but mixed of FHD and HD can be added. So far not had to consider mixed framerates or i/p mixes. Not had to consider guest clips from 'phones.
              Last edited by Geoff_C; 07-27-2020, 03:43 PM.
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              • #8
                I deliver 1080 50i on USB and have not had one reject (all TV support 50i but only some support 1080 50p) (all TV support 1280x720 50p)
                Anton Strauss
                Antons Video Productions - Sydney

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by antonsvideo View Post
                  I deliver 1080 50i on USB and have not had one reject (all TV support 50i but only some support 1080 50p) (all TV support 1280x720 50p)
                  But can you deliver a wedding in 1280x720 50p? I mean would that be nice as quality? Its a wedding...they pay you to deliver 720? I dont know... I will try to export one in 1280x720 to see if there is much difference...
                  I5 4690 CPU
                  MOTHERBORAD GIGABYTE GA-Z97-HD3
                  RAM 8GB [email protected]
                  AMD RADEON HD 6800
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                  2X2TB WD CAVIAR GREEN (BACKUP)
                  1 OCZ SSD 128GB
                  Windows 7
                  Edius 9&8 Workgroup

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by George Glou View Post

                    But can you deliver a wedding in 1280x720 50p? I mean would that be nice as quality? Its a wedding...they pay you to deliver 720? I dont know... I will try to export one in 1280x720 to see if there is much difference...
                    1280x720 50p looks way better than any DVD, so they should be happy

                    the only issue is that some TVs don't play it full screen unless you change the display setting, usually done from the TV remote
                    Anton Strauss
                    Antons Video Productions - Sydney

                    EDIUS 9 WG with BM Mini Monitor 4k and BM Mini Recorder, Gigabyte X299 UD4 Pro, Intel Core i9 9960X 16 Core, 32 Threads @ 4.3Ghz, Corsair Water Cooling, Gigabyte RTX-2070 Super 3X 8GB Video Card, Samsung 860 Pro 512GB SSD for System, 8TB Samsung Raid0 SSD for Video, 2 Pioneer BDR-209 Blu-ray/DVD burners, Hotswap Bay for 3.5" Sata and 2.5" SSD, Phanteks Enthoo Pro XL Tower, Corsair 32GB DDR4 Ram, Win10 Pro

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                    • #11
                      Maybe output in HQX and then convert to .mp4 using Handbrake. In past posts I think Anton posted a .json template for this conversion, either way it's pretty easy. Octogenerian so memory possible slipping along with spelling.
                      Sys1: Gigabyte Z370 HD3 i7 8086K(4.3Ghz), 16Gb ram, 256Gb SSD system + 2x2Tb video drives, Graphics: nVidia 1060 (W10 Pro) E8v3 WG; Vegas Pro17; DVD Architect 5.2
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                      Software: E8v3 WG; Vegas Pro17

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                      • #12
                        Could you please tell me how to get an hour of hd on usb for playback on tv. Trying to workout how to overcome fat32 while preserving quality. thanks in advance.

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                        • #13
                          you can re format the usb stick to exFAT or NTFS to get around the 4gig file size
                          .... But you may have issues as the tv may not recognize the usb stick. give it a try and see.

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                          • #14
                            exFat is a no go for TV, NTFS should work on most

                            you can also use Fat32 and set Hanbdrake bitrate to 8000 and this should make a file of 3.8GB (8M quality in Handbrake is plenty good)
                            Anton Strauss
                            Antons Video Productions - Sydney

                            EDIUS 9 WG with BM Mini Monitor 4k and BM Mini Recorder, Gigabyte X299 UD4 Pro, Intel Core i9 9960X 16 Core, 32 Threads @ 4.3Ghz, Corsair Water Cooling, Gigabyte RTX-2070 Super 3X 8GB Video Card, Samsung 860 Pro 512GB SSD for System, 8TB Samsung Raid0 SSD for Video, 2 Pioneer BDR-209 Blu-ray/DVD burners, Hotswap Bay for 3.5" Sata and 2.5" SSD, Phanteks Enthoo Pro XL Tower, Corsair 32GB DDR4 Ram, Win10 Pro

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