Edius HD for dummies

[jjbvideo]

StormDave,
Once you use P2 or SxS kind of file based video camera, you will NEVER EVER go back to tape based.

I fully agree. Unfortunately I still have some DV material (not P2) to edit and my conclusion is - SD is a lot more complicated than HD ;-)

[GrassValley_BH]

:) I love HowStuffWorks...

http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/hdtv2.htm

[Gunn]

O.K. you geeks.....I will take your answers as "I am not interested in a book".
Well then, pulleese direct me to a place where I can read about settings and aspects, etc in HD. Both camera settings and Edius settings. I could just post a new question every hour or so but eventually even my bubbly personality would rub you raw.

JoJo (the wiz)

PS, I just spent six grand on hardware upgrades so I don't think muscle will slow
things down

[Khoi Pham]

I thought about that, but then, knowing myself, I will stick with tape for awhile, I'm workaholic, I depended on capturing so I can get away from working and do other stuff, if I go to card, I will never stop working. (-:

StormDave,

Once you use P2 or SxS kind of file based video camera, you will NEVER EVER go back to tape based.

a) Speed. You can immediately use the footage after capture into your NLE without wasting a second on capturing. Great for those ENG guys.

b) Ruggedness. Tapes are inherently fragile. Ever seen a ball of tape curled around a capstan? You know what I am talking about. You can't use a tape based camera at -35 deg C. The capstan will freeze the tape to the metal. P2 cards - I have personally used my HVX202 at 4000m (twice already) ... at -25 deg C to -40 deg C (about there). No problems.

c) Longer battery life. No motors to spin - (capstan needs motor. Read/Write heads need motor).

[STORMDAVE]

how do we know how long Blu Ray lasts before fading away like many DVD-R already did?

I am also upgradig camera shortly, I am currently going for the Panasonic HPX-502 P2 or the Sony XDCAM PDWF330K

http://panasonic.com.au/products/details.cfm?objectID=4094

http://www.sony.com.au/production/catalog/product.jsp?categoryId=30547

I also worry about archiving and the XDCAM would make better sense since I would be able to put the source footage disk on the shelf for future use

I will keep my DVCAM camera for backup, great camera

Well Blu-ray should be better, but I have not tried it. I have had zero problems with DVD backup (DATA). I always use good brand DVD's and the only ones that lost data were really cheap ones I used back in 2000. Blu-ray has a coating layer on it, so it should be much better.

XDCAM is Blu-ray but in a cartridge...I'm sure it's a bit better against scratches and dust.

By the way, we are looking at the HPX500 (US) too, just the no Full HD support (AVC-Intra) and pixel shifted HVX-type CCD's put us on the sidelines for now...I guess we could always go with the HPX2000.

I would go with the HPX502 (UK?) if I were you. 4:2:2 is a great deal in my opinion. XDCAM does have its upsides...uses less datarate (35mbps) and the media is only $30 per disk and you can archive and reuse these.

[STORMDAVE]

StormDave, you forgot you can still use tape. Computer data tapes. Such as SDLT, LTO, etc, etc. Then you can archive data at 10X - 50X - 100X realtime - just dump the MXF format data (native for P2 cards) into the data tape drive. DVCAM archives at 1X realtime :-). Got it?

You can get 800GB SDLT tapes (SDLT-4) already. That's native capacity (no compression yet). With compression - it is 1.6TB. But, video data don't compress that well. Think how many Blu-ray disks you need for that? Granted the cost of the drive is expensive ... up to US$5K, it is still much cheaper than the DVCPRO HD tape drives (US$25K).

Expensive for me. I have Rev Pro, but that's only 35GB/$60 per tape...still not bad considering how durable they are.

[tingsern]

Antonvideo,

Either camera will do you good. Archiving computer data (remember - this is NOT video data anymore) ... go for computer data tapes. All of Fortune 1000's Enterprise data are kept on tapes - SDLT, LTO, 3590, etc, etc, etc.

[Jerry]

HD is a lot more complicated than SD. I have been editing on Canopus since Rex became available. Nothing prepared me for HD and all the options. I really need an in depth tutorial as I am not impressed with the info that came from GV. To understand the answers, you first must understand the questions. One of you geniuses needs to write "Edius HD for dummies". I used to teach photography and MANY times a student would say "finally I understand". I believe a thorough understanding of the basics is necessary before you go forward. I can flow chart a book if anyone cares to participate with technical input. ****, we might even be able to sell a few copies.

JoJo

I know all of the responses have been about the geek part of the equation.
The faster the computer the easier it is.
I get the impression that is only part of what you are asking. What I did before investing into the HD was to set down and study the different resolutions and pixel aspect ratios. I came from the Rex era as well.

A couple of points of which to take note:
1. Resolutions- get this right the first time-this also determines how
much horsepower you are going to need to edit. DVCPROHD will
require less horsepower than full frame 1920x1080.
2. Aspect ratios- this one will bite you on your butt if you don't get it right.
when possible stick with square pixels. I know HDV is a 1.3333 aspect ratio
but than can be manipulated. If have to use 1.3333 make sure that
everything is in that same aspect ratio.
3. Get those frame rates right. You will notice a lot of settings in Edius.
Coming from Rex you will be familiar with 29.97. There are a lot of different
flavors now and each will create a different look.
4. If you are doing the camera work on an HDV camera learn to FOCUS. That
is the hardest part of the shooting. I use a cheapie 15" lcd in
B&W just for focusing. When I am inside I use a 26" for that.

What I have noticed is that my preproduction skills have had to improve.
My planning stages take a little longer but I have a much better frame work
with which to work.

[antonsvideo]

how do we know how long Blu Ray lasts before fading away like many DVD-R already did?

I am also upgradig camera shortly, I am currently going for the Panasonic HPX-502 P2 or the Sony XDCAM PDWF330K

http://panasonic.com.au/products/details.cfm?objectID=4094

http://www.sony.com.au/production/catalog/product.jsp?categoryId=30547

I also worry about archiving and the XDCAM would make better sense since I would be able to put the source footage disk on the shelf for future use

I will keep my DVCAM camera for backup, great camera

[tingsern]

StormDave, you forgot you can still use tape. Computer data tapes. Such as SDLT, LTO, etc, etc. Then you can archive data at 10X - 50X - 100X realtime - just dump the MXF format data (native for P2 cards) into the data tape drive. DVCAM archives at 1X realtime :-). Got it?

You can get 800GB SDLT tapes (SDLT-4) already. That's native capacity (no compression yet). With compression - it is 1.6TB. But, video data don't compress that well. Think how many Blu-ray disks you need for that? Granted the cost of the drive is expensive ... up to US$5K, it is still much cheaper than the DVCPRO HD tape drives (US$25K).

[STORMDAVE]

TingSern I totally agree, no doubt I'll take solid state vs. hard drives any day...but archiving comes into play here and I don't trust hard drives for backups. We have alot of DVCAM tapes here, and we feel good that at least we have stuff archived :)

I know that in the events business you don't really need to archive much after your done with the project, but I always keep the original DVCAM tapes just in case my hard drive(s) fail before giving the project to the customer...forgetting about events, sometimes you need to keep footage archived for a long long time and tape is still king, unfortunately. This is why I want cheap Blu-ray archiving.

[tingsern]

StormDave,

Once you use P2 or SxS kind of file based video camera, you will NEVER EVER go back to tape based.

a) Speed. You can immediately use the footage after capture into your NLE without wasting a second on capturing. Great for those ENG guys.

b) Ruggedness. Tapes are inherently fragile. Ever seen a ball of tape curled around a capstan? You know what I am talking about. You can't use a tape based camera at -35 deg C. The capstan will freeze the tape to the metal. P2 cards - I have personally used my HVX202 at 4000m (twice already) ... at -25 deg C to -40 deg C (about there). No problems.

c) Longer battery life. No motors to spin - (capstan needs motor. Read/Write heads need motor).

[STORMDAVE]

64GB P2 cards are coming in Fall 2008 :D
I guess by then we should have Blu-ray discs for cheap for backup. We are seriously looking at P2.

[tingsern]

Or better still, capture? What capture? If you own a Panasonic P2 card video camera OR a Sony SxS or Compactflash recorder, you can put "Capture" into history ... haven't been capturing for the past 2 years now :-))).

[Bluetongue]

Nowadays, with the Q6600 in the $200 price range, I don't see why you wouldn't be able to do compressed HD at least anyway. Throw in 2 750GB Seagate SATA drives in RAID0 (Not counting file security) and you've got yourself a good HD editing rig.

Quite so Dave, my system handles either with great dexterity, I guess habit controls us all.
Regards Barry