HDV to DVD Artifact solution

[Khoi Pham]

Ok thanks, I will try that and see.
Take care.

[Jerry]

Jerry what camera do you have? does your camera record 1920X1080 or 1440X1080 and you just captured as 1920X1080 and edit on 1920X1080 project?

I have the Canon XH-A1 and it records at 1440 but I capture at 1920 for the square pixel.
I think that is the key though. Starting your encode from that square pixel
reduces a lot of artifacting. At least in my case.

I was going to rush out and get the EX1, but, I want to see what is offered up at NAB. I would really like to have all of the stuff on the EX1 with an interchangeable lens.
Jerry

[Khoi Pham]

Jerry what camera do you have? does your camera record 1920X1080 or 1440X1080 and you just captured as 1920X1080 and edit on 1920X1080 project?

I think I have been saying something very similar for a long time now.
I edit in a 1920x1080 preset anyway because I capture in 1920x1080. I have found that the less the encoder has to correct, the better the final image. I usually export to an uncompressed file for storage. This method allows me to encode through Procoder, as well as being able to bring the uncompressed file into Encore to use the H.264 codec. Encore does not handle Canopus files that well.
Also, if I need to do bluray and DVD quickly, I can bring in the uncompressed file and it will be encoded within Encore for both versions at the same time during build. Granted the encoder is not a good as Procoder. But for a quick turn around, it works just fine.
I have not tried the blur filter concept. I get very sharp images with just this method and adding the color space filter. I will try a test with the .25 filter to see if I can tell any difference.

[PaulTV]

Barry, I'll test your settings with EX1 1920x1080 HQ footage, I have component out from NX to HD Tube monitor, this really shows the detail of what is going on, unlike any flat panel.

will report back.

Paul

[Jerry]

This is a Problem that has been bugging me for some time and I have had some success by going outside Edius and Procoder but the solution is now available.
To be able to do this you will need Procoder 3
1: Export time line in Canopus HQ from EDIUS through Procoder to either 1920x1080 or 1440x1080
2: Import the file into Procoder and in the advanced section of the Source add the Circular Blur filter with a preset of .25 for 1920 or .5 for 1440 video (Do not add this filter to the output)
3: For the Target Add a DVD preset and the resulting file ends up sharper than not using the Blur filter.
I have tried all the Blur filters and the Circular Blur works the best
The Canopus HQ file has to be exported from the timeline as Procoder does not allow adding filters if the input is from Edius.
I added the 1920 setting as this is what I had to use in the External Mpeg encoder in MSP 7 for the best results
Regards Barry

I think I have been saying something very similar for a long time now.
I edit in a 1920x1080 preset anyway because I capture in 1920x1080. I have found that the less the encoder has to correct, the better the final image. I usually export to an uncompressed file for storage. This method allows me to encode through Procoder, as well as being able to bring the uncompressed file into Encore to use the H.264 codec. Encore does not handle Canopus files that well.
Also, if I need to do bluray and DVD quickly, I can bring in the uncompressed file and it will be encoded within Encore for both versions at the same time during build. Granted the encoder is not a good as Procoder. But for a quick turn around, it works just fine.
I have not tried the blur filter concept. I get very sharp images with just this method and adding the color space filter. I will try a test with the .25 filter to see if I can tell any difference.

[Bluetongue]

OK this seems to be the best so far
Take the HDV 1440x1080 to CanopusHQ
Bring into Procoder 3, on the Source Advanced settings add Circular Blur filter with a setting of .4
On the TARGET DVD setting, in Advanced Add the following filters
709 to 601 Color Correction
Sharpen Filter, Radius of Blur 2.7, Blend 0.25, Threshold for smoothness det 16, Use your mouse wheel on the setting for small increments
Looks good and the cost is zero
It also works on SD DV footage
Regards Barry

[Khoi Pham]

Have you guys tried Squeeze at all?

No is it good or better?

[Bluetongue]

Hi Khoi
Tried the TMPGenc 4.0 Express encoder, yes excellent, I have done some playing with it as it seems to be a later version than your settings but I think I have it right.
Used your settings for Noise 10 and Antiflicker MAX (256) and tried the de interlace presets the two best were Interpolate Adjusted with Deinterlace when necessary and Deinterlace always (double frame rate) all looked good
Have done some more with Procoder
As Before used Canopus HQ 1440 x 1080 - Circular Blur .5 on the Source
On the output I added the Sharpen filter with the settings as follows
Radius of Blur 3
Blend .5
Thresh hold 3
and this is now starting to look really good, needs some more tweaking

As to being able to use the time line assess, I found it not really a guide as I am using the EDIUS Monitor window which is not all that flash at SD and I can see little change between the clips
Perhaps this is telling me I need an NX board to look at the timeline
I am now going to try some more with both codecs to see what improvement I can make
Regards Barry

[pjsssss]

Have you guys tried Squeeze at all?

[Khoi Pham]

Thanks for that Khoi, so simple for comparison. I will try the Tsunami encoder later today I take it that is from the TEMPeng site.
One other question you mentioned changing the Timeline to D9??
Regards Barry

Yeah D9 or DV project, I thought D9 is a little sharper but probably the same, and yes that is the right website, what do you think of the bitmap?

[RonnieMartin]

Thanks guys .... I think that this may be the solution to my problem using clips from My EX in a SD project.

I am going to try this approach with my clips that I have had trouble with this week. I shot the rest of my project today but since I only had one chance at it I shot it in SD. I guess that was the best choice because the light was so low and the SD camera worked fine.

Next time I will shoot it all in HD and apply the remedy that you suggest and see what happens.

If it works you will have saved me much heart ache.

Ronnie

[Bluetongue]

BTW you can put the .m2v files from each encoder on Edius timeline, put them on top of each other and playback, during playback hide the clip on top and it instantly show you the bottom clip, this is easier to tell the differences between the clips than looping the dvd with different clip.

Thanks for that Khoi, so simple for comparison. I will try the Tsunami encoder later today I take it that is from the TEMPeng site.
One other question you mentioned changing the Timeline to D9??
Regards Barry

[Khoi Pham]

BTW you can put the .m2v files from each encoder on Edius timeline, put them on top of each other and playback, during playback hide the clip on top and it instantly show you the bottom clip, this is easier to tell the differences between the clips than looping the dvd with different clip.

[Khoi Pham]

Hi Barry, that solve the problem with flickering, but also got much softer, it definetly look better when playback on a standard dvd player and interlaced display like a tube tv or tube projector, but when viewed on a 1080P with a good upconvert dvd player like a PS3, it is much softer than same file from Tsunami encoder or Procoder 3 with timeline switch to D9 before encoding. I have some example of the same frame on my website, check it out and let me know what you think.

www.proeditproductions.com/realaudio/HQ orignal.bmp
(original HQ clip, frame made on D9 timeline)

https://www.proeditproductions.com/r...ocodercircular blur.bmp

https://www.proeditproductions.com/realaudio/Tsunami.bmp

(Tsunami encoder with antiflicker set to max, noise reduction set to 10, resize method set to normal, it default to Langcos3 but that seems to add edge enhancement in that mode so I used normal mode, you can download a free trial and test it out).

[Bluetongue]

Thanks for that, something else slipped under the sights
I could not find much difference between Gausian and Circular until I made a short DVD with the same clip following each other and set to play one after the other in the Authoring Prog and then it was just perceptibly better, I Think!
Regards Barry