HDV to DVD Artifact solution

[Bluetongue]

This is a Problem that has been bugging me for some time and I have had some success by going outside Edius and Procoder but the solution is now available.
To be able to do this you will need Procoder 3
1: Export time line in Canopus HQ from EDIUS through Procoder to either 1920x1080 or 1440x1080
2: Import the file into Procoder and in the advanced section of the Source add the Circular Blur filter with a preset of .25 for 1920 or .5 for 1440 video (Do not add this filter to the output)
3: For the Target Add a DVD preset and the resulting file ends up sharper than not using the Blur filter.
I have tried all the Blur filters and the Circular Blur works the best
The Canopus HQ file has to be exported from the timeline as Procoder does not allow adding filters if the input is from Edius.
I added the 1920 setting as this is what I had to use in the External Mpeg encoder in MSP 7 for the best results
Regards Barry

[GrassValley_BH]

Yes, downscaling tends to give the visual effect of oversharpening, so adding a blur before the downscaling can help to counteract this.

In contrast, upscaling tends to give the visual effect of blurring, so adding a sharpen before the upscaling can help to counteract that as well.

[Khoi Pham]

This is a Problem that has been bugging me for some time and I have had some success by going outside Edius and Procoder but the solution is now available.
To be able to do this you will need Procoder 3
1: Export time line in Canopus HQ from EDIUS through Procoder to either 1920x1080 or 1440x1080
2: Import the file into Procoder and in the advanced section of the Source add the Circular Blur filter with a preset of .25 for 1920 or .5 for 1440 video (Do not add this filter to the output)
3: For the Target Add a DVD preset and the resulting file ends up sharper than not using the Blur filter.
I have tried all the Blur filters and the Circular Blur works the best
The Canopus HQ file has to be exported from the timeline as Procoder does not allow adding filters if the input is from Edius.
I added the 1920 setting as this is what I had to use in the External Mpeg encoder in MSP 7 for the best results
Regards Barry

Hi Barry, in step 1, why do you have to export timeline to HQ using ProCoder?
Why can't you just use Edius to export to HQ?
Thanks.

[Bluetongue]

Hi Barry, in step 1, why do you have to export timeline to HQ using ProCoder?
Why can't you just use Edius to export to HQ?
Thanks.

Khoi
Originally when I started and was trying MSP it was the only way to get a 1920x1080 AVI from the timeline as 1440x1080 is the preset I use (HDV)
As it turned out the final result with MSP was "Better" if 1920 was used, it did not like the rectangular pixels of HDV,
I try to use all possibilities so I havn't missed anything and asses the results and put the thinking cap on which finally led me back to Procoder
Yes you are correct it can be done that way
Regards Barry

[Khoi Pham]

Ok thanks alot, it is encoding with your settings now, I will check it tomorrow, I will compare it with the Tsunami encoder but without your settings, the Tsumani encoder is much better than Procoder when making MPEG2 SD and the source is HD. There are no method of resize to choose in ProCoder, I wonder what it use?

[medeamajic]

Interesting info.

It does sound odd to apply blur but it might be the best solution. I have noticed that using antiflicker for PIPs in Premiere Pro sometimes seems to look slightly better than not using it (depends on the PIP).

[PaulTV]

I've just tested this on my worst section of footage from my EX1, but converted output from procoder to a Microsoft SD DV file - the results are pretty good, quite usable.

Paul

[Bluetongue]

I got the idea from using the MSP encoder that is not as sharp as Procoder and went from there and the problem really reared its head once I went to the Canons which are much sharper than the FX1, excellent camera for weddings with it's soft focus, still keep it for some of the things it does that the canons do not like still frame.
Maybe someone can come up with a better solution or with careful honing the concept can be carried to fruition.
I had some time to spare and this is the result of a days work of trial and error, it may be some clips or projects require slightly different settings but what I am now getting onto DVD is as good as the best I have had
Regards Barry

[Edipus Rex]

Thanks, I had been using Gaussian Blur.

Don't forget to add the 709 to 601 colour space conversion filter too - as this converts from HD Colour space to SD

[Bluetongue]

Thanks for that, something else slipped under the sights
I could not find much difference between Gausian and Circular until I made a short DVD with the same clip following each other and set to play one after the other in the Authoring Prog and then it was just perceptibly better, I Think!
Regards Barry

[Khoi Pham]

Hi Barry, that solve the problem with flickering, but also got much softer, it definetly look better when playback on a standard dvd player and interlaced display like a tube tv or tube projector, but when viewed on a 1080P with a good upconvert dvd player like a PS3, it is much softer than same file from Tsunami encoder or Procoder 3 with timeline switch to D9 before encoding. I have some example of the same frame on my website, check it out and let me know what you think.

www.proeditproductions.com/realaudio/HQ orignal.bmp
(original HQ clip, frame made on D9 timeline)

https://www.proeditproductions.com/r...ocodercircular blur.bmp

https://www.proeditproductions.com/realaudio/Tsunami.bmp

(Tsunami encoder with antiflicker set to max, noise reduction set to 10, resize method set to normal, it default to Langcos3 but that seems to add edge enhancement in that mode so I used normal mode, you can download a free trial and test it out).

[Khoi Pham]

BTW you can put the .m2v files from each encoder on Edius timeline, put them on top of each other and playback, during playback hide the clip on top and it instantly show you the bottom clip, this is easier to tell the differences between the clips than looping the dvd with different clip.

[Bluetongue]

BTW you can put the .m2v files from each encoder on Edius timeline, put them on top of each other and playback, during playback hide the clip on top and it instantly show you the bottom clip, this is easier to tell the differences between the clips than looping the dvd with different clip.

Thanks for that Khoi, so simple for comparison. I will try the Tsunami encoder later today I take it that is from the TEMPeng site.
One other question you mentioned changing the Timeline to D9??
Regards Barry

[RonnieMartin]

Thanks guys .... I think that this may be the solution to my problem using clips from My EX in a SD project.

I am going to try this approach with my clips that I have had trouble with this week. I shot the rest of my project today but since I only had one chance at it I shot it in SD. I guess that was the best choice because the light was so low and the SD camera worked fine.

Next time I will shoot it all in HD and apply the remedy that you suggest and see what happens.

If it works you will have saved me much heart ache.

Ronnie

[Khoi Pham]

Thanks for that Khoi, so simple for comparison. I will try the Tsunami encoder later today I take it that is from the TEMPeng site.
One other question you mentioned changing the Timeline to D9??
Regards Barry

Yeah D9 or DV project, I thought D9 is a little sharper but probably the same, and yes that is the right website, what do you think of the bitmap?