HDV clips in a SD project

[Khoi Pham]

If he is using Print to DVD, then he is using the built in Edius encoder not Procoder.

I just test encoding from HD timeline using the generic mpeg the result are the same as ProCoder, stair steps artifacts city.

[RonnieMartin]

Thank you so much Barry.... I will try your settings on the project I am shooting this weekend.

I appreciate all your help.... and the rest of you guys and gals that posted on this problem.....

Ronnie

[Bluetongue]

Hello Barry: Thanks for your help with this problem. I have one question for you however:
I assume you edit in HDV.... at what point do you adjust your titles?

If I edit in hdv and then down convert to sd the titles are way too big.

My work flow has been edit in HDV, save the project with a different name,
change the Settings on the time line to SD 720x480, use the layout tool on each clip to make it 4x3. Which is very time consuming on a 2 hour project.
Then export with Procoder and import the file into my authoring program so that I can add the menu and chapter points.

I want to use your settings on my next project this weekend which will be all shot with the EX rather than the Z1. The project will be full of titles.

Where I really ran into problems is when I used a clip from my EX in a SD project. That is where it fell apart.

Thanks
Ronnie

Ronnie
1: Yes all my editing is in HDV

2: Titles, as I Output the complete time line in HDV (HQ or Native HDV Procoder will handle either) there is no need to worry about his problem except I add the 4:3 overlay to the Edius Monitor to ensure when cropped to 4:3 for the local Community TV station the titles are inside the 4:3 format

3: For adding to an SD time line I would Batch convert the all the HDV files with Procoder using a watch folder using the same settings but instead of using the DVD output setting use the DV AVI settings in Procoder selecting the DV Microsoft-DV AVI. The DV AVI is as sharp if not sharper than normal SD DV!

This is how I get the final for placing back on tape for the Station
Bring the DV AVI into either a new project with the DV AVI 4:3 spec or make another sequence in my main Project, change the project settings and output to tape, make sure to change the project settings back for HDV editing in the project!
Regards Barry

[RonnieMartin]

Hello Barry: Thanks for your help with this problem. I have one question for you however:
I assume you edit in HDV.... at what point do you adjust your titles?

If I edit in hdv and then down convert to sd the titles are way too big.

My work flow has been edit in HDV, save the project with a different name,
change the Settings on the time line to SD 720x480, use the layout tool on each clip to make it 4x3. Which is very time consuming on a 2 hour project.
Then export with Procoder and import the file into my authoring program so that I can add the menu and chapter points.

I want to use your settings on my next project this weekend which will be all shot with the EX rather than the Z1. The project will be full of titles.

Where I really ran into problems is when I used a clip from my EX in a SD project. That is where it fell apart.

Thanks
Ronnie

[Bluetongue]

This has been an ongoing problem and depends on the camera that the original footage is shot with, the better (or sharper the camera) the worse the problem is.
There is one other factor in this and this is the quality of the MPEG encoder, the better the encoder the worse the problem.
If you just have EDIUS then there is NO solution that I have found.
If you have procoder 3 (now supposed to work in Vista with the latest patch) the problem can be overcome by doing the following.
1: Export the time line in Canopus HQ in 1440 x 1080
2: Import into Procoder
3: Click advanced button and select "Video Filters" add "Circular Blur" with a setting of 0.4
3a: If you need to crop to 4:3 use the "Relative crop" making sure the (Left + Right offset) add up to 360, Make sure "Scale after crop is selected"
4: Select your target DVD Mpeg (I use mastering)
5: Click advanced button add the following Video filters
6: Colour space conversion 709 to 601
7:Sharpen filter with the following settings
7a: Radius of Blur = 2.00
7b: Amount of blend = .25
7c: Threshold = 2.75
To allow small increments to be adjusted on the setting use the mouse wheel
These settings have eliminated all the artifacts on the horizontal lines (Looks like a ZEBRA pattern) in my DVD's and on tapes I submit in 4:3 SD to the local community TV station
In fact the SD AVI's look sharper than down loading from the camera using the on camera SD converter
If you only have EDIUS then a slight Blur to all clips that you are having problems with may help but the final will also not be as sharp
Hope this helps
Barry

[ixlor8]

Edius

I am using Edius Neo because I have a Vista operating system. I do use the Edius "print to DVD". I have no issues with quality.

The DVD is a 720x480 16:9

[antonsvideo]

I have spent a week now trying to solve the problem of down converting hdv to SD from within Edius 4.6 with out any resolve.

I have searched many of the forums and no one seems to have a handle on the best way to do it in Edius.

I checked the camera settings again and again.... tried every possible setting in Edius and still have the jaggies.. on horizontal lines.

I am Kinda like Jerry Clower and the Raccoon. "Just shoot up here among us because one of us needs some relief!!."

Am I the only one with this problem?
Is it an EX camera problem or software Edius problem?

Like I said before I believe that I had jumped too soon on the HD band wagon.

Either the camera or Software must go.

Sorry to be so negative...just frustrated after spending so much on a new work station and camera with very poor results.

Here in lies the problem…. When I down convert footage from the EX or Z1 (EX being the worse) that was shot at 1440x1080 (HDV) on the Edius 4.6 time line by changing the settings to SD 720x480 any horizontal line flickers. It may be the edge of a shelf or the bricks on a building. When I look at the native footage it is pristine. However after down converting it is not usable.

Any help surely would be appreciated

Thanks for letting me vent.

Ronnie

can I have 2 seconds of your brick wall footage in native EX1 format?

are you shooting progressive or interlaced?

[pjsssss]

This is the worst, there is a big bug with ProCoder when feeding it HD and convert to MPEG2, don't you see the edge of anything in your video looking like stair steps?

If he is using Print to DVD, then he is using the built in Edius encoder not Procoder.

[pjsssss]

I keep my footage in the 1440x1080i project. I do not save to a 720x480 project.

The 1440x1080i project is converted to SD DVD when you "print to DVD".

It sounds like the video is being converted twice. I work with HDV and go directly to "Print to DVD" function. The final output is a SD DVD wide screen version.

The DVD is fantastic. Very clear. Very nice.

Are you saying that it is converted to a 4:3 SD DVD? (I am assuming no)

[Khoi Pham]

I keep my footage in the 1440x1080i project. I do not save to a 720x480 project.

The 1440x1080i project is converted to SD DVD when you "print to DVD".

It sounds like the video is being converted twice. I work with HDV and go directly to "Print to DVD" function. The final output is a SD DVD wide screen version.

The DVD is fantastic. Very clear. Very nice.

This is the worst, there is a big bug with ProCoder when feeding it HD and convert to MPEG2, don't you see the edge of anything in your video looking like stair steps?

[cuervo]

I agree with ixlor8. Stay in HD(v) as long as possible. I also convert and work in progressive mode as the first step. No problem with combing or interlace artifacts...ever.

[ixlor8]

I keep my footage in the 1440x1080i project. I do not save to a 720x480 project.

The 1440x1080i project is converted to SD DVD when you "print to DVD".

It sounds like the video is being converted twice. I work with HDV and go directly to "Print to DVD" function. The final output is a SD DVD wide screen version.

The DVD is fantastic. Very clear. Very nice.

[RonnieMartin]

Ronnie,

I have a Sony FX7 HDV camcorder. I have not experience the problems with converting from HDV to SD DVD.

First
I set my project for 1440 x 1080.

Second
I do my editing, adding transitions and filters.

Third
I use the print to DVD setting.

The results are unbelieveable for a DVD.

Ronnie, does this sound like your work flow?

It is very similar. Do the following shoot a short clip in HDV with your settings as mentioned, of a brick building or metal shelf that has horizontal
lines. Pan the camera slightly or zoom out slightly. Place the clip on Edius time line with a project setting of 1440x1080i. Change the project settings to 720X480 16x9 or 4x3 and play the clip. Let me know what happens.

Thanks
Ronnie

[RonnieMartin]

After looking at other forums for the same problem I found the following on a FCP forum:

"When exporting 1080i HD footage from Final Cut using Compressor, no matter what SD MPEG-2 setting you try to down-convert to, you’ll invariably end up with a rendered video file which has nasty interlaced artifacts.

The problem: the source footage is being re-interlaced during the conversion.

The solution: simply apply a de-interlacing filter to the Compressor workflow. This is as simple as switching on the de-interlacing filter in your output settings."

Could this be at the heart of the artifact problem I am seeing when down converting from HDV to SD in Edius?

Do we in fact have a de-interlacing filter in Edius? Or a way to arrive at the same result?

Thanks so much for your help. Sorry to keep this problem alive by continual posting. It is so very important to those of us who are shooting in HDV and want good SD DVDs. Especially after investing in the transition ultimately to HD and beyond.

Ronnie

[ixlor8]

Ronnie

Ronnie,

I have a Sony FX7 HDV camcorder. I have not experience the problems with converting from HDV to SD DVD.

First
I set my project for 1440 x 1080.

Second
I do my editing, adding transitions and filters.

Third
I use the print to DVD setting.

The results are unbelieveable for a DVD.

Ronnie, does this sound like your work flow?