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  • HDV clips in a SD project

    I have a project that is shot in SD 4x3 DVCAM. My B roll clips are HDV 1440X1080i (shot with the new EX-1). The DVCAM images look good but when I import a clip shot in HDV any horizontal lines are jagged and not even. If the camera moves any at all it is worse. For instance I have a short clip where a person takes an object from a shelf and the edges of the shelf look really bad. Reminds me of my old SVHS cameras. The clips viewed in HDV are stunning clear and perfect.

    Is there something that I am doing wrong? Is there anything that will help the distortion when down converting HDV to SD within Edius 4.54?

    My project settings are: out put format 720x480 59.94 4x3
    NX E1 SD NTC
    pixile aspect 0.9000
    audio rate 48000 hz
    sample size 16 bit
    rendering format Canopus HQ

    Thanks

    Ronnie
    Ronnie Martin
    Kato Video Productions
    main system: custom built by Edit HD Ultma 277,Intel (R) core (TM) i7 2600K cpu 3.40 GHz 3.40Ghz, 16GB ram, Windows 7, Intel HD (R) graphics 3000, NVIDA Gforce GT 440, C drive Samsung SSD 850 pro, video drive WD 3TB SATA, 2 LG Bluray drives, External WD SATA 2TB storage/backup drives in thermaltake Black device. edius 8.3 WG

  • #2
    how is the HDV footage displaying in the 4:3 project? letterboxed or you used layout tool to fill screen?

    if using layout tool, the closer you go to 100%, the less jaggies you should have

    I would switch the EX1 to DVCAM rec mode if you need to mix footage with SD footage

    I have not seen HD footage inside a SD project that looks as clean as SD footage in a SD project

    catch 22 (if you know what I mean)
    Anton Strauss
    Antons Video Productions - Sydney

    EDIUS X WG with BM Mini Monitor 4k and BM Mini Recorder, Gigabyte X299 UD4 Pro, Intel Core i9 9960X 16 Core, 32 Threads @ 4.3Ghz, Corsair Water Cooling, Gigabyte RTX-2070 Super 3X 8GB Video Card, Samsung 860 Pro 512GB SSD for System, 8TB Samsung Raid0 SSD for Video, 2 Pioneer BDR-209 Blu-ray/DVD burners, Hotswap Bay for 3.5" Sata and 2.5" SSD, Phanteks Enthoo Pro XL Tower, Corsair 32GB DDR4 Ram, Win10 Pro

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    • #3
      Hello Anton Thanks so much for your reply. I used the layout tool to convert the 16x9 hdv image to 4x3. It looks pretty bad.

      If this is what I am to expect when I have SD and HDV footage in the same project then I had better hang on to my SD cameras.

      I can see the same thing when I shoot a complete HDV project then down convert it to SD for SD DVD distribution.

      I know that this topic has been beat to death on the forum but I am not pleased with the results when shooting HDV when the final product is SD DVD.

      To save space on the forum I sent you a private message a duplicate of the above.

      Would you please respond (PM) with your recommendations as to work flow when shooting HDV with the end product being SD DVD?

      Thanks so much for your help. I have learned a lot from reading your informative posts.

      Thanks
      Ronnie
      Ronnie Martin
      Kato Video Productions
      main system: custom built by Edit HD Ultma 277,Intel (R) core (TM) i7 2600K cpu 3.40 GHz 3.40Ghz, 16GB ram, Windows 7, Intel HD (R) graphics 3000, NVIDA Gforce GT 440, C drive Samsung SSD 850 pro, video drive WD 3TB SATA, 2 LG Bluray drives, External WD SATA 2TB storage/backup drives in thermaltake Black device. edius 8.3 WG

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      • #4
        Hi Ronnie

        I am not the expert here, I am an SD 16:9 shooter, however I tested HDV footage in SD project and it did not look as good as SD (the footage has artifacts due to downscaling)

        the idea of HD HDV is to ouput to Blu-Ray

        have you tried the EX1 in DVCAM rec mode?
        Anton Strauss
        Antons Video Productions - Sydney

        EDIUS X WG with BM Mini Monitor 4k and BM Mini Recorder, Gigabyte X299 UD4 Pro, Intel Core i9 9960X 16 Core, 32 Threads @ 4.3Ghz, Corsair Water Cooling, Gigabyte RTX-2070 Super 3X 8GB Video Card, Samsung 860 Pro 512GB SSD for System, 8TB Samsung Raid0 SSD for Video, 2 Pioneer BDR-209 Blu-ray/DVD burners, Hotswap Bay for 3.5" Sata and 2.5" SSD, Phanteks Enthoo Pro XL Tower, Corsair 32GB DDR4 Ram, Win10 Pro

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        • #5
          Why do you use the layout tool? if you have a 4:3 SD project, any 16x9 HDV clips place on the timeline will be automatic crop and resize and Edius does a very good job of resize imho, it is ProCoder that is bad, not Edius.
          I just try it and it looks great, there should be no way that dvcam can look better than HDV clip shot with an EX1 on Edius SD timeline.
          I7-6900K, X99 Taichi, Geforce GTX 1070, Corsair RM850X, Corsair H100 IV2, Windows 10, Edius WG 9.30

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Khoi Pham View Post
            Why do you use the layout tool? if you have a 4:3 SD project, any 16x9 HDV clips place on the timeline will be automatic crop and resize and Edius does a very good job of resize imho, it is ProCoder that is bad, not Edius.
            I just try it and it looks great, there should be no way that dvcam can look better than HDV clip shot with an EX1 on Edius SD timeline.
            my SD DVCAM 16:9 footage looks better than any Canopus HD HQ Demo clip when placed in SD 16:9 project

            however, the Canopus HD HQ Demo clips look superb in a 1440x1080i project
            Anton Strauss
            Antons Video Productions - Sydney

            EDIUS X WG with BM Mini Monitor 4k and BM Mini Recorder, Gigabyte X299 UD4 Pro, Intel Core i9 9960X 16 Core, 32 Threads @ 4.3Ghz, Corsair Water Cooling, Gigabyte RTX-2070 Super 3X 8GB Video Card, Samsung 860 Pro 512GB SSD for System, 8TB Samsung Raid0 SSD for Video, 2 Pioneer BDR-209 Blu-ray/DVD burners, Hotswap Bay for 3.5" Sata and 2.5" SSD, Phanteks Enthoo Pro XL Tower, Corsair 32GB DDR4 Ram, Win10 Pro

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            • #7
              Ronnie,

              There are some helpful suggestions for converting for best results in Edius in the following forum thread.


              http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=114690

              Hope it helps,

              Cheers Vaughan
              Main Edit System ASUS Z170-Pro, 6700K, 32 gig ram HD Spark, Windows 7 64bit Edius 8.1 (Edit Machine)
              2nd System Intel DZ77BH, 3770K, 16 GB ram, Edius 8.1 (ingest and authoring)
              3rd system (internet & Printing station)

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              • #8
                Just to say that the EX1 does not support any SD format, it's HD only.

                And yes it looks poor when downconverted, there's just too much detail, I've just produced a short film shot with 3 EX1's, final out to SD DVD and with an amount of soft focus tweaking, all looks Ok on the DVD, but it's not ideal.

                There are many threads dealing with this issue - check out DVinfo.

                The EX1 has huge amounts of detail, and looks fantastic at HD, I just don't think anyone has had to down convert such quality on their systems so far - I had no such issues with a shoot recently, on which I used 2 XDCAM 350's.

                Try a detail reduction in camera.

                I fear Anton is right, SD shoot SD out, looks best.

                Paul
                Edius Edits at: http://www.vimeo.com/user781619/videos

                1) AMD 3900X 12 core 4.6Ghz 2) Asus X79 4930K 6 core @4.4GHz Water Cooled. 480GB REVO3x2 System drive, 4TB Raid 0, 4 TB E-Sata Raid 5, 32GB RAM, GTX1070Ti Decklink HD Extreme. 3X Sony AX53 Sony AX700 BMPCC 4K

                http://indiestereographer.blogspot.co.uk

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                • #9
                  4.54 has made the conversion much better for me, I use xdcam hd and Z1. In earlier versions of edius it looked terrible in SD. I'm in PAL land. The early versions of edius were very good at timeline format conversion output, somewhere around v2-3 this became really bad, its much better again now. Its also worth checking field order as edius sometimes gets that wrong

                  Andy

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by PaulTV View Post
                    Just to say that the EX1 does not support any SD format, it's HD only.

                    And yes it looks poor when downconverted, there's just too much detail, I've just produced a short film shot with 3 EX1's, final out to SD DVD and with an amount of soft focus tweaking, all looks Ok on the DVD, but it's not ideal.

                    There are many threads dealing with this issue - check out DVinfo.

                    The EX1 has huge amounts of detail, and looks fantastic at HD, I just don't think anyone has had to down convert such quality on their systems so far - I had no such issues with a shoot recently, on which I used 2 XDCAM 350's.

                    Try a detail reduction in camera.

                    I fear Anton is right, SD shoot SD out, looks best.

                    Paul

                    The problem is not details, it is because ProCoder 3 or some Encoding software can not resize correctly from 1440X1080 to 720X480, the work around if you want to use Edius/Procoder is to switch your timeline to D9 before you encode to MPEG2, ( Edius do a decent resize) the other is to use another Encoder that can resize correctly, which I am slowly migrate to because I have been mentioning this scalling problem with ProCoder for almost 2 years now and nobody at GV seems to care. I hope GV take a serious look into this problem soon, cuz they already loosing customer like myself to other encoder that can resize correctly and also with much faster speed.
                    I7-6900K, X99 Taichi, Geforce GTX 1070, Corsair RM850X, Corsair H100 IV2, Windows 10, Edius WG 9.30

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                    • #11
                      You may be partly right, but I use Z1's FX1's and 330's 350's and they all downconvert reasonably well, the issue here is the EX1 which Ronnie has, and so do I. The overall detail is much higher on this camera as it has native 1920x1080 sensors, and this does have a huge effect. There is really no comparison between anything and the EX1, at least anything we are all used to using - I suspect GV will have to look at an addition to Procoder to handle these newer camera's files.

                      I've just spent about 5 hours playing with the mp4 files from my EX1, the mxf equivalents and various conversions, looking for the best route to an acceptable SD file - so far it's not too good, but hey, we have time to play!

                      At least 4.6 imports everything, plays everything and edits everything, you should see how much hassle other NLE users are having with the EX1 - and you get realtime output as well - I'm not complaining right now, I can tell you.

                      Paul
                      Edius Edits at: http://www.vimeo.com/user781619/videos

                      1) AMD 3900X 12 core 4.6Ghz 2) Asus X79 4930K 6 core @4.4GHz Water Cooled. 480GB REVO3x2 System drive, 4TB Raid 0, 4 TB E-Sata Raid 5, 32GB RAM, GTX1070Ti Decklink HD Extreme. 3X Sony AX53 Sony AX700 BMPCC 4K

                      http://indiestereographer.blogspot.co.uk

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                      • #12
                        Since you don't like your EX1 downconvert, I would be glad to trade you my XH A1 for it. (-:
                        I7-6900K, X99 Taichi, Geforce GTX 1070, Corsair RM850X, Corsair H100 IV2, Windows 10, Edius WG 9.30

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Khoi Pham View Post
                          Since you don't like your EX1 downconvert, I would be glad to trade you my XH A1 for it. (-:
                          Khoi,
                          I'm waiting to see if Canon responds to the EX-1.
                          Jerry
                          Six Gill DV
                          www.sgdvtutorials.com
                          If you own the Tutorials and you need help, PM me.

                          Vistitle YouTube Channel
                          https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMVlxC8Am4qFbkXJRoPAnMQ/videos

                          Windows 10 Pro up to v.1803 Tweaks for Edius Users
                          http://sgdvtutorials.com/WIN%2010%20...%20V.2.0.0.pdf


                          Main System:: Azrock Z97 Extreme 6, [email protected], 32gb ram, Corsair H110, Win10 Pro 64, Samsung 850 pro, E7.5/8.5/E9 on separate SSD drives, HD Spark, Intensity Shuttle, 12tb RAID 0 on backplane ,2 BD, Benq 27 and Hanns-G 28 monitors, CC 2019, GTX 1080ti SC Black.
                          Second System: EditHD Ultimax-i7, X58, [email protected], Corsair H80, Win764, 24gb ram, Storm 3g, Samsung 840 Pro 256, 4tb and 6tb RAID 0 on backplane, GTX 980ti Classified, Edius 9, Apple 30", Samsung 24", dual BD.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Jerry View Post
                            Khoi,
                            I'm waiting to see if Canon responds to the EX-1.
                            My Canon HV20 is 1920 res - I'll see If I can get it to look good in SD (I assume the same issues apply..)

                            It looks fantastic in good light, and for the money is a killer camera.. I was just about to by an EX1 though before Anton told me about this thread..

                            Looking at the P2 now although if this is a 1920 issue, then wont they all have the issue? ..
                            www.wishlistcentral.com - suggest new features
                            www.buglistcentral.com - report bugs
                            www.wishlistcentral.com/edius/ - Free edius user add-ons

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                            • #15
                              Lets hope that Blu Ray gets a solid grip, and we can all forget about SD !

                              The EX1 is fantastic, but everyone is having the same issues, I'm testing Vegas pro 8 today, it is supposed to work pretty well for downconvert, but lets see, also, there's a lot of grumbling about Prem Pro failing miserably with this issue, although there are a few good reports with FCP - me, I've had very good results with "organic" images, ie, people, nature, etc, but awful looking shots from handheld, with lots of straight edges, which cause dancing "interference" lines, particularly anything slightly off horizontal - it looks like many DVD's which originate from 70mm film, very "zingy" in the details.

                              Paul
                              Edius Edits at: http://www.vimeo.com/user781619/videos

                              1) AMD 3900X 12 core 4.6Ghz 2) Asus X79 4930K 6 core @4.4GHz Water Cooled. 480GB REVO3x2 System drive, 4TB Raid 0, 4 TB E-Sata Raid 5, 32GB RAM, GTX1070Ti Decklink HD Extreme. 3X Sony AX53 Sony AX700 BMPCC 4K

                              http://indiestereographer.blogspot.co.uk

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