Upgrade path for STORM users to NXe?

[Jerry]

Guess we have been sensitized by posts which too often seem to express the idea that Canopus (or now GV) owed them upgrade perc's.

Fred is right.
I have been associated with Canopus and this board since late 1996. I can't remember how many times we have heard that a particular upgrade path should be automatic or that it will enhance the position of the product in the marketplace. That 'desensitized" attitude was acquired. I'm sorry if you felt
'jumped' on.
By the way, if you didn't know it, the Storm is an end of life product. Just like it's more expensive brother, the RexRT. Although they both still work well, new products have taken over.
So should GV give an upgrade path to Rex users as well?

[shueardm]

The other point that I think hasn't been mentioned is that the Storm card is quite worthless in a monetry sence now. If they were to buy them back with a trade in I can tell you what they would do with them. Trash Can.
Anyone got more than $200 for a Storm on Ebay lately?

[GrassValley_BH]

Okay folks, calm down...

The original post was a question/suggestion about having a "loyalty discount" or some other incentive for DVStorm folks to upgrade to newer hardware.

We're Thomson now (GV is part of Thomson - the Thomson brand is globalizing, hence the new GV Thomson logo), and that means we're a much larger company than we ever were. The downside is that there's much more "process" to things. It's not like I can walk down the hall and ask Hiro if we can do something and get the Yes or No in 5 minutes. Sometimes that's good, sometimes that's bad. End result: It's just different.

We have a saying back home, "If can, can. If no can, no can." To that I add, "We try."

[SRsupport]

Yes we can :)....... change that is! he he

[gdame]

OK, I just chilled out on the couch and got a nap in as well. The Daytona 500 is great for that. First time I watched it in years, and in HD its so much better!

Let me first apologize for my little rant of history and the value of Thomson Grass Valley products. I guess we should now call them this as they have clearly dropped the Canopus name from the new 4.5 manuals.

I am a fan of loyalty upgrades and as a reseller I like the ability to market them to my client base. Most of my clients are repeat customers and thus this sometimes helps them time their decision to upgrade. Historically, there seems to be few stages of a products life cycle, typically 2 - 3 years.

1) Introduction - MSRP is revealed and the product is introduced along with an unveiling at many trade shows and a lot of money spent on marketing.

2) 1st year - An upgrade offer is made to current customers and sometimes a competitive upgrade/sidegrade is made to users of competing products. This is a product list that is usually clearly defined.

3) 1st or 2nd Year - A free major software version upgrade to all currently registered users that purchased the product with in a certain time from i.e. a certain date 6 months prior to the version upgrade release.

4) 3rd year - An outstanding value bundle is sku'd and offered at a greatly reduced price. Long after all other promotions have expired. i.e. The Rex Mega bundle, The Storm 2 Bundle with MPEG encoder, component output and Breakout panel, NX Express, etc. Usually there are no promos offered by the manufacturer other than the great value of the bundle.

5) End of life coming within the year - A discount or add-on promo to the already great value bundle. Usually has a time limit of 30 - 90 days and then back to the bundle price till the newer product or bundle is unveiled. NAB and IBC are pretty good indicators of what is coming next.

While I may be completely wrong, I feel that the NX is approaching stage 5. I am not trying to start any rumors or speculation and I certainly do not have any information that is not heard hear on this forum. But IT work-flow, 1920x1080p, and fastest way to Blu-Ray are the top of my list to explore at NAB in a couple of months.

[Jerry]

While I may be completely wrong, I feel that the NX is approaching stage 5. I am not trying to start any rumors or speculation and I certainly do not have any information that is not heard hear on this forum. But IT work-flow, 1920x1080p, and fastest way to Blu-Ray are the top of my list to explore at NAB in a couple of months.


I am not too concerned with 1080p, just yet. At this point, just getting bluray players from all brands to play
BDMV will be a giant step. I am quite happy to deliver 1080i
blurays with fully interactive menus. On a good set and bluray player, 1080i is stunning. I think that part of that is I capture into the system at 1920x1080(mostly uncompressed) as opposed to a firewire capture of 1440x1080 1.3.
Granted less RT, but I can tell the difference in the final product.

I have a bluray demo playing at Best Buy here in Orlando. When the manager of the 'Magnolia' department asked me what 1080p camera I was using...well
you know the rest. I was taken aback by his reaction to the disc.
Afer working with HD for this long, I guess I have just become jaded.

I agree about the NX. I don't know if it is to stage 5 yet, but it is pretty close. I still would remove it from my system for the HDRX-E1 card if and when they decide to let it go.

[gdame]

While I may be completely wrong, I feel that the NX is approaching stage 5. I am not trying to start any rumors or speculation and I certainly do not have any information that is not heard hear on this forum. But IT work-flow, 1920x1080p, and fastest way to Blu-Ray are the top of my list to explore at NAB in a couple of months.


I am not too concerned with 1080p, just yet. At this point, just getting bluray players from all brands to play
BDMV will be a giant step. I am quite happy to deliver 1080i
blurays with fully interactive menus. On a good set and bluray player, 1080i is stunning. I think that part of that is I capture into the system at 1920x1080(mostly uncompressed) as opposed to a firewire capture of 1440x1080 1.3.
Granted less RT, but I can tell the difference in the final product.

I have a bluray demo playing at Best Buy here in Orlando. When the manager of the 'Magnolia' department asked me what 1080p camera I was using...well
you know the rest. I was taken aback by his reaction to the disc.
Afer working with HD for this long, I guess I have just become jaded.

I agree about the NX. I don't know if it is to stage 5 yet, but it is pretty close. I still would remove it from my system for the HDRX-E1 card if and when they decide to let it go.

Jerry, I agree with 1080i being quite simply stunning. As a system integrator and the Sony EX-1 getting so much great reviews and shoots in a myriad of progressive HD resolutions and frame rates. My customers are looking at the specs and always keeping up with what is going on over the other side of the fence, under the fruit tree. And with most of the newer HD-TV's being natively progressive, it would be nice to stay in that mode for the entire loop. But personally my eyes are some times tricked by some excellant scalers in the new TV's.

"Approaching", is the key word in my remark regrding the NX's lifecycle... :)

[GrassValley_KH]

Ok, I see a lot of epic posts in this thread, but the short answer is this:

With the (likely) end of support for DVStorm/DVRaptor hardware in the next major release of EDIUS, do not think for a moment that we haven't considered the impact a move would have on our very large, and very important DVStorm user base.

And for the record, every EDIUS customer is important to us. That's why we're here on this forum every day.

[Jerry]

\

And for the record, every EDIUS customer is important to us. That's why we're here on this forum every day.

We all realize that you, the moderators, do care about the product and
the people that use it. My comments were centered on the corporate state of mind. Which, we know, you have no control. And a lot of times, neither do they.

Also, thanks for adding the additional navigation tools at the bottom of the page. Great Idea!!!!

[Jerry]

And with most of the newer HD-TV's being natively progressive, it would be nice to stay in that mode for the entire loop. But personally my eyes are some times tricked by some excellant scalers in the new TV's.

"Approaching", is the key word in my remark regrding the NX's lifecycle... :)

I'm not at my computer right now, but is there a 1080p preset that will work through the entire 'loop including output to monitor?' I think the preset for the Ex-1 is OHCI in 4.6. I'll have to look to see.
There are progressive setting for 1440x1080 and not 1920x1080, I guess if I want to go full Progressive I will have to edit in 1440x1080 znd then convert to 1920 OHCI for output. If using Vitascene in 1920x1080, some effects do not function at all in that setting.

Going to NAB

[jonandmarkuk]

The problem I had is that the NX cards come with Edius, as I already have a full copy I didn't want another. If you speak with your local dealer nicely and can prove you own Edius you maybe able to get a discount at least by opting out of another copy of Eduis.

[GrassValley_KH]

As has been stated numerous times in the past, removing the software from any of our hardware packages wouldn't affect the price too much, since the price is for the hardware (the software included is more a bonus). For example, of the $1,499 (or whatever it is for NX Express nowadays), only a very very small fraction of that is going toward your software license. About enough to cover the dongle, manuals, DVD media etc. If the full license price went into the overall MSRP, NX would be over $2k, which is not where we want to be.

So having a second license (which isn't tethered to the hardware in any way since v4.x), isn't such a bad thing when you aren't exactly spending big dollars on it. Now you have a license for a potention "second system" when the upgrading season rolls around.

[gdame]

I'm not at my computer right now, but is there a 1080p preset that will work through the entire 'loop including output to monitor?' I think the preset for the Ex-1 is OHCI in 4.6. I'll have to look to see.
There are progressive setting for 1440x1080 and not 1920x1080, I guess if I want to go full Progressive I will have to edit in 1440x1080 znd then convert to 1920 OHCI for output. If using Vitascene in 1920x1080, some effects do not function at all in that setting.

Going to NAB

Jerry, No progressive 1920x1080p. OHCI for that. But to edit with a 1440 x 1080 output is no problem fo my eyes. The final product when put out to Blu-Ray is all that matters.

No NAB for me this year! Too much other traveling between now and then.

[gdame]

As has been stated numerous times in the past, removing the software from any of our hardware packages wouldn't affect the price too much, since the price is for the hardware (the software included is more a bonus). For example, of the $1,499 (or whatever it is for NX Express nowadays), only a very very small fraction of that is going toward your software license. About enough to cover the dongle, manuals, DVD media etc. If the full license price went into the overall MSRP, NX would be over $2k, which is not where we want to be.

So having a second license (which isn't tethered to the hardware in any way since v4.x), isn't such a bad thing when you aren't exactly spending big dollars on it. Now you have a license for a potention "second system" when the upgrading season rolls around.

Kenneally, what is GV's policy for dealers in regards to splitting the software from an NX Express bundle. I have been asked this a number of times.

[GrassValley_KH]

Wouldn't know, George. That's a sales question, which is out of my territory.