Shadow/Highlight Filter (aka Fill Light) in EDIUS ?

[rl2008]

Hi,

I'm a newbie NEO user, but I want to post this to a wider audience, as the question is not a NEO-specific one.

Premiere Pro has a filter called Shadow/Highlight Filter (in Video Effects folder) that is an example of a Fill Light class of corrections. I don't know how well this really works on PP, it is not a trivial correction to do right, but tools like that are now quite commonplace in still image world and can be a bad-day saver, albeit usually with RAW flow, taking advantage of the deeper bit data. Some good examples can be found here: http://www.pbase.com/sigmadslr/all_fill_light

Anyone can comment on how these types of corrections are working in video flow ? Specifically, does EDIUS (NEO, or ALTO) have anything like that ? Being a newbie I tried some YUV curves I found, and results were... OK, I guess, as far as global curves go. You can induce posterization pretty fast, which is not all that surprising if EDIUS uses 8 bit internal representation. Anyone doing these sorts of equalizations in real life ? Any advice on how to do this right ?

thanks,

[THoff]

Someone pointed me to an excellent technique a few months back that involves using the SCREEN keyer to combine two identical video tracks.

http://ediusforum.grassvalley.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1446

[Rusty]

Welcome to the Fouum rl2008!

Using Screen is an excellent method to get the results you may be after, however for finer results control your color tones with the White Balance filter rather than Color Balance in the lower track. I'd play with Chrominance if you need to control something like a washed-out sky or too dark areas.

There's way too many variables, so hang in there! It may take you 30:00 to get the look you want, but next time it will take 5:00!

[GrassValley_KH]

Unfortunately, if my memory serves me correctly, 'Screen' is a layer blend, and as such is not available in EDIUS Neo..

[rl2008]

Hi Mr. Sparkle,

Seems like the answer to my question is "no, not really". This I find quite surprising. I think the method of blending layers is a good trick and might be OK for brightening the footage - even if it seems quite laborious and circuitous for such a simple correction. But I don't think it would do much to rebalance the brightness within the frame. That effectively requires remapping values in a nonlinear way, boosting some value ranges, while keeping others unchanged, preferably only in selected areas. Gamma, or a more general YUV curve are a simple global approach, FillLight is a more elaborate algorithm that does a form of equalization based on local neighbourhood.

The reason I find it surprising is that this would seem to be a very frequenct problem with real life footage. This question came up when I was filming kids sliding down a snowy slope, and I thought "well this is going to be pretty some crappy material, but what can I do, turn on the flash ? This will need some fill light later". But there is no fill light available, not even a histogram tool with sliders for range and gamma. "Hmm. That sucks". There is a YUV curve, but it works only so so, seems to be posterizing across smooth gradients, which is not all that unusual if the tool is mapping 8 bits into 8 bits, that is going to make missing bits very fast. "There has to be another way, let's ask people who do this daily". Apparently not. So how do you folks manage brightness and contrast of your edits, especially when assembling footage taken under different uncontrolled lighting conditions, and how do you deal with front-dark (or back-lit) material ?

Or, if PP has a tool like that, when will EDIUS have it too ? For all its strengths EDIUS seems to be a bit weak with these sorts of corrections. Or am I missing something important ? Point it out, I am an EDIUS newbie, and proud of it :-)

[GrassValley_KH]

Sorry, to be clear - "Screen" layer blending is only available in EDIUS Pro and EDIUS Broadcast.

For EDIUS Neo, your best option is to work with the White Balance filter and fine tune.

Remember, you can apply the same filter multiple times to a single clip, using different settings.

[GrassValley_BH]

Rule #1: We do talk about EDIUS.
Rule #2: What other people call Color Correction, we call White Balance.
Rule #3: Don't ask why rule #2 has to exist.
:)

[rl2008]

Well then, Demystifier, demystify this one for me and tell me how to accomplish this in EDIUS, and I will never mention PP (what does that stand for, anyway ? Oh, must those people in a double building east of Guadalupe with a weird rotating sign on top of it) again. I'll just know them for the PDF, if you don't mind.

Call it what you want, just tell me what I'm missing. You know, the road from newbie to greatness takes some work, and I'm well on my way. Want to ride along ?

:-)
---------
If your sweet house is on fire, do not email, call 911

[pjsssss]

Almost everyone here uses Edius (not Neo). Neo is a lite version of Edius and does not have all of the functions of its big brother. So if you are strictly using Neo you might be better off posting in the Neo section.

[GrassValley_BH]

No problems in mentioning "the competition" - Rule #1 was an apparently too weak reference to Fight Club... :)

As you mention, YUV Curves are probably too "harsh" introducing banding and weird effects (I'm really good at making video look really bad).

I'd use White Balance with the luminance limiter enabled - this will let you control say, highlights without affecting shadow, etc.

You will probably end up with more than one White Balance filter on the clip if you do it this way, but you'll have a great deal of control. And I like control... *grin*

BTW: The mystery of the rotating light-thing was recently solved... *Shrug* I thought it was some kind of counter for how many software installs they had activated, heh.

[rl2008]

Thanks Brandon,

I will play with that effect and see where it leads. I think there is some place where one can put request for features. I will put this FillLight there, maybe it will get someone interested. When done right this correction can be magical, and really helpful in saving material. It is much easier to implement for still images, but its value would likely be even higher for video, and I know there are some people working on getting that done. I never actually used that PP effect, but I believe it has its issues.

Would you be able to comment on how one can get information on making plugins for EDIUS ? I think you made or maintain a page on third party products where your SDK is mentioned (which might be the only place where it is mentioned). It is probably outside the realm, but I would like to check that anyway. There is some interesting code at work that might be worth playing with.

thanks,

[GrassValley_BH]

Please go ahead and put a request into the Feature Request forum. Note that it won't show up immediately, as it's a moderated area, though.

SDK and third-party plug-ins all go through the Kobe, Japan office where the EDIUS engineering is.

Send me a PM and I can look up the right people when I get back into the office.

[rl2008]

Brandon,

I don't seem to be able to post to that section, maybe it recognizes a newbie, and a NEO-flavoured newbie to boot. Anyway, perhaps you could shoot me an email and we could talk about this topic offline. I think it has run its course here.

:-)

[GrassValley_BH]

You have a PM. :)

[rl2008]

I do ? What's a PM ? :-)