Taking the plunge - HDV or AVCHD

[ken7]

I am following the evolution of AVCHD cameras as it is my intention to get one as my next upgrade. Looking at the specs, AVCHD is rated up to c25Mbps (this is the highly compressed version - not the pro intra version). The latest generation of AVCHD cameras operate at c20Mbps. AVCHD should be approaching or reaching its full potential within the year. The AVCHD vs HDV comparison probably will need to be re-examined then.

I also spotted that, for the consumer market, Panasonic is to offer a small, stand aloneburner that burns from AVCHD cards into DVDs in HD.

Your're right about the max datarate of the AVCHD format, but the newest units will max out at 17Mbps (Canons). The Sonys will top out at 16Mbps.

[vienna1944er]

thx "ken7" ....my words ...my words.. I would love to see 20Mbit\sec on a consumer-cam, before the "summer-hliday time" starts

old (but not dead) Hans ;-)

[Ron Evans]

We will have to see what the actual data rates are for the new cams as the quoted are likely average data rates. My SR7 video played back on the PS3 often shows 16Mbps but it is quoted as 15Mbps in the spec. It may well be that the newer Sony's stated at 16 may well be greater in peak data rate. AVCHD is VBR codec unlike HDV which is CBR. Typical scenes change from a low of 11 to over 16 for the highest quality setting which is quoted as 15Mbps average.

Ron Evans

[drgagx]

I think I got carried away with 20Mbps; the Panasonic SD9 is rated at 17Mbps, see here
http://panasonic.co.jp/pavc/global/v...fications.html
The previous model, the SD5, topped out at 13Mbps and that hasn`t been out for that long. Product life seems to have shrunk to about six months on these cameras.

[Ron Evans]

All this talk of data rates got me watching a video I made of my grandson at the fun fair on Toronto Island last summer. I had made an AVCHD disc from the SR7 video using the Sony Motion Browser software. Nothing changed just let the software make the disc. I have played on my PS3 HDMI to my Panasonic Plasma with display data switched on to see the data rates. Audio is fixed at 448kbps and then I expect the total data rate is shown in the top right corner. In the 24 min, video rates varied between 8.6 and 20.3, as expected most varied close to the 15Mbps but frequently varied between 12.5 and 17.6Mbps. Thought this would be of interest to those who do not have an AVCHD camcorder. By the way this video is like looking through a window on the plasma( makes most cable HD look very poor), my wife actual prefers image to the FX1!!! My daughter now has the SR7 and I will be getting the SR12 when they come out.
Once again for editing stay with HDV for family stuff I can recommend AVCHD for the convenience.

Ron Evans

[GrassValley_BH]

Ron, you make a fine point here. Often times "us professionals" get way too caught up in the technobabble, features, functionality, flexibility, etc and we lose sight of the object of the entire exercise - in this case, family just wants to see a "nice" picture!

I forgot who it was, probably Sony or Canon - had a commercial about an ultraslim camera. A bunch of women were having lunch and some handsome guy came in. Drinks and purses flew as the other women struggled to get their cameras out while the one woman smoothly slipped her camera out of her pocket and got a good shot.

I have a love/hate relationship with my camcorder (VX2000) because I can't fit it in my pocket. I don't shoot enough home video to justify getting a new camera... Maybe I need to get some Downey-size pants with pockets. ;-)

[plasma_video]

Ron and Brandon -

You know you are so right. I spend far too much time sometimes editing and tweaking when all my family wants to do is see the video.

We gave a little camcorder that records to DVDs as a present to a friend for a very special occasion. I thought at the time that it was the wrong format as "she'll have a hard time editing that footage" but she loves it. She can instantly go to a scene from a menu on the camcorder and show everyone what she shot right then and there. Plus, she can pop the DVD out and show it on anyone's TV with a desktop player.

We shoot exclusively on P2 at work, and tapeless is definately the way to go for news footage acquisition. THe photogs love it.

One of the first church productions I shot some years back was a Christmas program. I edited the blasted thing for weeks trying to get it just perfect (pre EDIUS with multicam and using Rex Edit only) and by the time I got around to distributing it in February, folks had moved on and there was little interest in it. As time went on, I got better about being timely and this year I learned my lesson and had it buttoned up and done, including multicam, special openings and a photo montage (thank you, as always, Imaginate!) before most people had taken their decorations down. I had a lot of interest in it, and I'm still being asked for copies.

I think I'm learning that it does not have to be a masterpiece for everyone to enjoy it. We are our own worst critics.

Well, the Canon arrives today, so I'll have a better idea this weekend about it's performance. I will have 30 days to try it and to exchange it if I think a different format would be more appropriate. In any case, I think I'll check out one of the hard drive or solid state cameras for a family present later on. That would make my wife and daughter very happy, I think.

Interesting discussion - thanks all!

Tom

[Ron Evans]

Shooting film and video has always been a hobby for me and now retired I look back on close to 45 years of doing this. Being in technology all my life I tend to look at the technology aspects of video too but the fact of the matter is content is number one and timeliness is likely number two and for most easy of use is likely number three. Your comments about DVD recorder are true for me too. I gave my second daughter a DVD 505 a couple of years ago knowing it was far from satisfying for my needs. She however had no interest in editing just wanted to show friends where she had been etc and being computer literate had no problems editing in camera and making full size DVD copies of the miniDVD's. She loves it though I can see the poorer quality than a DV camera would have given her. Likewise my other daughter who now has the SR7 has two little boys and just wants to pick up and shoot without wondering if there is enough tape in the camera etc. Both daughters are computer literate and have no problems with editing in camera and creating playlists etc, valid alternatives to NLE. And with DVD burners like the VRDMC5 from Sony can now burn these playlists to DVD, no PC required!!! True there will be no fancy titles, PiP's colour corrections multicam etc. But they are just not interested in this, just want the pictures!!!! When they want something fancy they always have dad!!!!
For hobby projects I will stay with HDV for the time being but for family it will be AVCHD.
Ron Evans