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  • #16
    Originally posted by Bluetongue View Post
    Clair
    You really got me going on this one
    Made footage of 3 Clips 1: still scene 2: Pan across a scene at my normal speed 3: a person walking across scene
    Each done in Progressive and then interlaced
    Results
    Brought into a new project set to HDV Progressive
    Brought the Progressive clips in with Capture set to Progressive
    Had to be set to progressive in properties on the Time line were (Top field first)
    Brought the next set of clips into Edius using HDV Interlaced
    On the Edius Monitor (Full screen Samsung 22 inch) and Video Overlay set to Update period Frame or Field (Have to restart Edius for the changes in Update to be registered.)
    The progressive footage looks sharper when not played ie STILL
    On play the still clip looks good
    The Pan clip has Jitter
    The person walking has jitter
    Interlaced footage is not quite as sharp but has no jitter on the clips with movement
    Change the Update Period to Field and there is little difference between Progressive and Interlaced except for the jitter
    Changed the project settings to HDV Interlaced and the Progressive footage looks much sharper on the monitor in Update Period Frame but little difference when viewed at Field, but the overall picture on the monitor is not as sharp.
    Output 3 Videos to my DVICO and projector which can handle both Progressive and interlaced.
    Results as follows
    1: Sharpness NO Difference with Progressive and Interlaced footage
    2: Jitter on the moving pictures in Progressive as seen on the Edius Monitor, even exported an interlaced video from a Progressive Project and it inherited the jitter.
    3: Interlaced video was the smoothest and as there was no difference to the sharpness that is where I will be staying
    Hope this helps
    Regards Barry
    Barry thanks for this interesting report, I have been out today in glorious weather (for Feb in UK) and shot some interlaced again. In fact I took duplicate shots in both Interlaced and Progressive just to remind myself of why I moved to mostly shooting progressive with my V1E.

    It was immediately apparent when reviewing this footage that we are seeing different things as my interlaced footage is rubbish compared to the progressive but I do not think it's anything to do with either sharpness or which is smoothest, instead it's simply the clarity and definition that is superior in my progressive footage.

    Actually it matters not to the computer if I capture this as frames or fields into an Edius project since it all looks the same other than when paused on the timeline for the interlaced stuff you must allow for how you have Edius View > Pause > field or frame set. I can tell immediately from either the paused video or in motion which clip is which simply by the fact there is so much more DETAIL in the progressive version, I am talking about seeing whole leaves on distant trees as opposed to a rough outline shape of the leaf. I have a golf course opposite my house and I can almost count the bits of frost glinting in the early morning sunshine on the grass when I watch the progressive stuff and the same scene in interlaced taken moments later with cam in same position on tripod is... well soft in comparison.

    Since you quite obviously do not see this glaring difference I must assume the Canon cam must work differently to the Sony so I spent some time Googling for info and have discovered that while the V1 has more detail in prog mode the Canon actually has somewhat less, so if this is the case I can now see where you are coming from with your dislike of progressive as for me it's this more highly detailed image that has me hooked!

    This is of course a separate issue to the pros and cons about the film look and if you like it or not, for me I can work around the jittery pans mostly in the type of filming I do, where it's mostly stuff moving in frame as opposed to moving the cam across the subject, makes a huge difference.
    Claire

    Edius 8.53 Workgroup, DVC Built i7 5960X 8 core Haswell-E Unlocked, Win10 Pro 64 bit, Gigabyte GA-X99-UD4, 32GB DDR4 RAM, RTX 2080 Ti 11GB, Decklink 4K Extreme 12G, TMPGEnc Movie Plug-in AVC, Eizo 31" ColorEdge CG319X HDR 4K monitor

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Claire View Post
      Since you quite obviously do not see this glaring difference I must assume the Canon cam must work differently to the Sony so I spent some time Googling for info and have discovered that while the V1 has more detail in prog mode the Canon actually has somewhat less, so if this is the case I can now see where you are coming from with your dislike of progressive as for me it's this more highly detailed image that has me hooked!
      That is interesting Clare, I have an FX1 which is the amateur version of the Z1P which is the previous version to the V1, the FX1 has been relegated to standby / backup due to the Canons both being considerably sharper to the FX1 especially at distances over 15 feet. The footage of leaves over that distance is just a blur and cannot be made sharper on the FX1 where the canon pulls all the detail straight out.
      From what you are saying it looks like Sony lifted their game as the "Progressive" 25 cine from the FX1 is in my opinion not worth using, nothing like the Canons and as I Quoted I can find no perceivable difference in the final footage between Progressive and Interlaced from the Canons except on the Editing Edius Monitor where a stopped still from the timeline in Progressive is sharper.
      Times change in such short spans these days "Top of the line one day obsolete the next"
      Regards Barry
      Win 10HP, EDIUS WG9.4, HD Spark, Boris RED 5, VMW6, Authorworks 6, Bluff Titler, VisTitler 2.8, NEAT 3/4, Mercalli 2/4, Vitascene, Izotope RX6 Plugin, NewBlue, Trend Micro AV
      GB GA-X58A-UD3R MB, i7 [email protected], 12G 1600mhz Mem, Samsung EVO-250G SSD, 3x2T RAID, GTX 970W OC, 2x24 inch LG Monitors
      Canon XH-A1/ Canon HF-G30, GoPro Hero3 Black, Edit @1920 50p HQ preset

      https://vimeo.com/user2157719/videos
      Laptop ASUS G752VT-GC060T Win 10HP, Edius WG8.53 Samsung M2 SSD 256G+1Tb HD,

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Bluetongue View Post
        Hi all have done some more investigating and experimenting and above is the clue
        Shutter speed 1/25 for pal is a serious improvement on the jitter for moving objects and Pan, in fact looks just like my old footage on Super 8 that ran at 18fps and the shutter speed on the camera was 1/25
        So the same could be relevant to NTSC but probably 1/30 any one else tried this
        My problem appears to be I use apature priority to control what can be controlled of depth of field and had been shooting at around 1/250 of a sec anything over 1/50 or even at 1/50 causes the jitter to become severe increasing as the shutter speed is increased. 1/250 does not appear to be a problem when using interlaced
        1/12 is not an option as the jitter is really severe
        One problem with the HV20 at 1/25 is there is not the apature range so a ND filter is required. On the A1 it is only a matter of switching in ND filters
        Regards Barry
        I use the Panasonic HVX202 here. Same thing when I film in 25p - if I set the shutter to 1/12 sec - the jitter is very bad. Minimum shutter speed is 1/25 to eliminate the jitter. It is interesting to note that on the HVX202, shooting at higher shutter speeds does not increase the jitter. Only at 1/12 sec - it is very apparent.
        I have one other option - turning OFF the shutter - in conjunction with ND filters and aperature control - used only in specialised cases (great for filming off TV without bandlines).
        TingSern
        --------------------------------------
        Edius 9.4 Pro, Lenovo P72 workstation laptop, 64GB RAM, Xeon CPU, Windows 10 Pro (64 bits), 2 x 2TB Samsung M2.NVME and 1 x 4TB Samsung SSD internal. Panasonic UX180 camera, Blackmagic 4K Pocket Cinema, Blackmagic Pocket Cinema

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