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  • Preview monitor displays max. IRE=100

    The preview monitor (Edius 9.5 pro) shows areas with IRE values greater than 100 as if they are 100. A test image containing 2 rectangles with Y values 235 (IRE=100) and 255 (IRE=109.13) shows no difference in brightness between the two areas on the preview monitor.
    When I export the Edius test image to a photo or MP4 file (color space BT.709) and then display it on the same PC with the same monitor, a difference in brightness between the two areas is visible.

    My Panasonic camcorder (BT.709) takes pictures with Y values from 18 to 255. These recordings are only for my own use so there is no reason to apply max IRE=100.
    Of course, it is possible to compress the Y values 18-255 to 18-235 with the help of filter YUV Curve, but that is where information is lost. Cutting off all values above 235 (Safe Color function in Color Balance) mutilates the image so that's completely out of the question.

    Does anyone have any idea what's going on and how to fix it?

  • #2
    can you provide a short test clip of the 255 footage (1 sec is enough)
    Anton Strauss
    Antons Video Productions - Sydney

    EDIUS X WG with BM Mini Monitor 4k and BM Mini Recorder, Gigabyte X299 UD4 Pro, Intel Core i9 9960X 16 Core, 32 Threads @ 4.3Ghz, Corsair Water Cooling, Gigabyte RTX-2070 Super 3X 8GB Video Card, Samsung 860 Pro 512GB SSD for System, 8TB Samsung Raid0 SSD for Video, 2 Pioneer BDR-209 Blu-ray/DVD burners, Hotswap Bay for 3.5" Sata and 2.5" SSD, Phanteks Enthoo Pro XL Tower, Corsair 32GB DDR4 Ram, Win10 Pro

    Comment


    • #3
      Requested test file

      I attached the test file you asked for. The Y values of the small squares vary between 255 and 235 and 0 and 16 respectively. As you can see, the values below 16 are not displayed in the preview monitor either. Make sure that the video driver is set to display Full Range color.

      Because the H264 file in the MP4 container apparently contains all Y values 0-255, the full range flag should be True. Does Edius always set this flag to True or does it depend on the Y values found in the project to be exported?

      If the flag is always set to true, also when Safe Color is applied, the displaying device expects 0-255 but gets 16-235. In that case the darkest and lightest shades will not be displayed correctly.

      I did not find a way to influence the settings of the Full Range flag.

      JackV
      Attached Files

      Comment


      • #4
        Edius Scopes.jpg

        Edius 8WG. Magix Vegas Pro 17 echos Edius display. Am I missing something?

        G
        Last edited by Geoff_C; 06-17-2020, 06:04 PM. Reason: Checked with VP17
        Sys1: Gigabyte Z370 HD3 i7 8086K(4.3Ghz), 16Gb ram, 256Gb SSD system + 2x2Tb video drives, Graphics: nVidia 1060 (W10 Pro) E8v3 WG; Vegas Pro17; DVD Architect 5.2 GH2(hacked) Pana HC-X2000E
        Sys2 :Clevo i7 6700HQ 3.5Ghz,16Gb ram 2565Gb SSD + 1Tb (W10 Pro)
        Software: E8v3 WG; Vegas Pro17

        Comment


        • #5
          your clip displays the full range from 0 to 255

          however, if I add a primary color correction filter, the blacks are clipped instantly

          this behavior can be disabled if need be
          Attached Files
          Anton Strauss
          Antons Video Productions - Sydney

          EDIUS X WG with BM Mini Monitor 4k and BM Mini Recorder, Gigabyte X299 UD4 Pro, Intel Core i9 9960X 16 Core, 32 Threads @ 4.3Ghz, Corsair Water Cooling, Gigabyte RTX-2070 Super 3X 8GB Video Card, Samsung 860 Pro 512GB SSD for System, 8TB Samsung Raid0 SSD for Video, 2 Pioneer BDR-209 Blu-ray/DVD burners, Hotswap Bay for 3.5" Sata and 2.5" SSD, Phanteks Enthoo Pro XL Tower, Corsair 32GB DDR4 Ram, Win10 Pro

          Comment


          • #6
            I know the clip contains the full range, but that's to demonstrate that Edius' preview monitor doesn't display the Y values <16 and >235 even if the video driver is set to display the full range. There are many cameras that are able to capture full range and not everyone uses Edius for TV broadcasts.

            It's odd that the primary color correction filter adjusts the <16 values, but not the >235 values, even without having the option in this filter to set Safe Color.

            In my opinion, it makes no sense that Edius offers the ability to use Full Range Luminance and also allows the user to export in Full Range, but deprives the user of the ability to see the Full Range Luminance via the preview monitor in order to edit the clip correctly.

            To deal with the problem, I temporarily reduce the brightness of the clip and, after any adjustments, return it to its original value. In this way, the correct ratios between white and superwhite can be set without losing the information of the full luminance range.

            JackV

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by JackV View Post
              I know the clip contains the full range, but that's to demonstrate that Edius' preview monitor doesn't display the Y values <16 and >235 even if the video driver is set to display the full range. There are many cameras that are able to capture full range and not everyone uses Edius for TV broadcasts.

              It's odd that the primary color correction filter adjusts the <16 values, but not the >235 values, even without having the option in this filter to set Safe Color.

              In my opinion, it makes no sense that Edius offers the ability to use Full Range Luminance and also allows the user to export in Full Range, but deprives the user of the ability to see the Full Range Luminance via the preview monitor in order to edit the clip correctly.

              To deal with the problem, I temporarily reduce the brightness of the clip and, after any adjustments, return it to its original value. In this way, the correct ratios between white and superwhite can be set without losing the information of the full luminance range.

              JackV
              you can disable the black clipping of the PCC filter
              disable both values
              Anton-00583.png
              Anton Strauss
              Antons Video Productions - Sydney

              EDIUS X WG with BM Mini Monitor 4k and BM Mini Recorder, Gigabyte X299 UD4 Pro, Intel Core i9 9960X 16 Core, 32 Threads @ 4.3Ghz, Corsair Water Cooling, Gigabyte RTX-2070 Super 3X 8GB Video Card, Samsung 860 Pro 512GB SSD for System, 8TB Samsung Raid0 SSD for Video, 2 Pioneer BDR-209 Blu-ray/DVD burners, Hotswap Bay for 3.5" Sata and 2.5" SSD, Phanteks Enthoo Pro XL Tower, Corsair 32GB DDR4 Ram, Win10 Pro

              Comment


              • #8
                sorry, I gave you the wrong info

                in PCC filter, change from Display Light to Scene Light to get the full range

                AVP-0098.png
                Anton Strauss
                Antons Video Productions - Sydney

                EDIUS X WG with BM Mini Monitor 4k and BM Mini Recorder, Gigabyte X299 UD4 Pro, Intel Core i9 9960X 16 Core, 32 Threads @ 4.3Ghz, Corsair Water Cooling, Gigabyte RTX-2070 Super 3X 8GB Video Card, Samsung 860 Pro 512GB SSD for System, 8TB Samsung Raid0 SSD for Video, 2 Pioneer BDR-209 Blu-ray/DVD burners, Hotswap Bay for 3.5" Sata and 2.5" SSD, Phanteks Enthoo Pro XL Tower, Corsair 32GB DDR4 Ram, Win10 Pro

                Comment


                • #9
                  ​Hi Anton, thank you for your response.

                  I added an image with Y values 0, 16, 18, 235 and 255 that I used to set the compression values in the YUV curve filter, and 4 images with various filter settings. As expected Edius is clipping the luminance values &lt;16 and &gt;235.
                  Surprisingly, QuickTitler appears to interpret the image correctly. As one would expect, the entire luminance range inclusive the ultra high lights is correctly shown on its display. Also Photoshop is showing the picture in the right way.

                  In the next 4 pictures, I created using different filter settings, it can be clearly seen in the net curtains that cutting off the highlights by checking Safe Color or applying the settings as indicated on page 479 of the Edius 9.4 user manual results in a less qualitative image than compressing the Y values 18-255 to 16-235, so if you have to make use of the restricted range it should be better to compress the images than to clip the highlights.

                  In my opinion, for all Edius users who are not bound by the limited luminance range, it will be a great improvement to be able to set the display range of the preview monitor in the project settings, for example 0-255, 16-235 or 16-255.

                  JackV

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    if you are referring to the handling of still images, you need to set to super white in user settings (prior to adding stills to the bin) to get the full range

                    Anton-00604.png
                    Anton Strauss
                    Antons Video Productions - Sydney

                    EDIUS X WG with BM Mini Monitor 4k and BM Mini Recorder, Gigabyte X299 UD4 Pro, Intel Core i9 9960X 16 Core, 32 Threads @ 4.3Ghz, Corsair Water Cooling, Gigabyte RTX-2070 Super 3X 8GB Video Card, Samsung 860 Pro 512GB SSD for System, 8TB Samsung Raid0 SSD for Video, 2 Pioneer BDR-209 Blu-ray/DVD burners, Hotswap Bay for 3.5" Sata and 2.5" SSD, Phanteks Enthoo Pro XL Tower, Corsair 32GB DDR4 Ram, Win10 Pro

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I have no problem processing still images; I had already applied 'super white' in the user settings you mentioned.

                      I put the 5 images from my previous post in a short video to play with (e.g. with VLC media player). I hope it will now become clear what I want to demonstrate.
                      Remember to set the video driver to full range or limited range to see the differences. Edius only shows the limited range in the preview monitor!

                      My conclusion: If you want to edit full-range videos with Edius the best way is to compress the luminance range from 18-255 (or 0-255) to 16-235 before editing.

                      https://1drv.ms/v/s!AhfYrSQf3v9UrgaJ...jDAWx?e=l5oAOc

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        ahahhh, you are looking at the EDIUS preview mon, I never look at that, whatever I see on my 50" external TV looks fine

                        my external mon shows a clear step from 235 to 255, whereas the EDIUS preview does not, see attached

                        the external Mon is connected via BM Mini Mon 4k and project is set to 10bit

                        20200703_093255.jpg20200703_093234.jpg20200703_093303.jpg
                        Last edited by antonsvideo; 07-03-2020, 12:42 AM.
                        Anton Strauss
                        Antons Video Productions - Sydney

                        EDIUS X WG with BM Mini Monitor 4k and BM Mini Recorder, Gigabyte X299 UD4 Pro, Intel Core i9 9960X 16 Core, 32 Threads @ 4.3Ghz, Corsair Water Cooling, Gigabyte RTX-2070 Super 3X 8GB Video Card, Samsung 860 Pro 512GB SSD for System, 8TB Samsung Raid0 SSD for Video, 2 Pioneer BDR-209 Blu-ray/DVD burners, Hotswap Bay for 3.5" Sata and 2.5" SSD, Phanteks Enthoo Pro XL Tower, Corsair 32GB DDR4 Ram, Win10 Pro

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          AVP-0103.png
                          Anton Strauss
                          Antons Video Productions - Sydney

                          EDIUS X WG with BM Mini Monitor 4k and BM Mini Recorder, Gigabyte X299 UD4 Pro, Intel Core i9 9960X 16 Core, 32 Threads @ 4.3Ghz, Corsair Water Cooling, Gigabyte RTX-2070 Super 3X 8GB Video Card, Samsung 860 Pro 512GB SSD for System, 8TB Samsung Raid0 SSD for Video, 2 Pioneer BDR-209 Blu-ray/DVD burners, Hotswap Bay for 3.5" Sata and 2.5" SSD, Phanteks Enthoo Pro XL Tower, Corsair 32GB DDR4 Ram, Win10 Pro

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Besides using the preview window, I mainly use an external 1920x1080 preview monitor. This monitor is configured as an extended display of Windows. As a graphics card I use the Intel UHD Graphics 630 hardware and software, referred to in Edius as Generic OHCI.

                            If I want to adjust the settings of the OHCI Preview Device (System settings> Hardware> Preview Device) I get the message: "Device doesn't support the current format. Unable to update settings. "
                            I have no idea what the differences between the device and the current format could be and I don't get any information about that.

                            Intel UHD Graphics 630 meets the Edius requirements for the Graphics Card:
                            – Supporting higher resolution than 1024×768 32-bit. Direct3D 9.0c or later and PixelShader Model 3.0 or later is required.
                            – 512MB minimum video memory for SD/HD editing (2GB minimum video memory in 4K editing).

                            The Intel UHD Graphics 630 driver can be set in "full range", in "limited range" or in "user settings" where, in the latter case, the application determines the desired setting.
                            The images (bottom right on the VLC media player) show a difference between the full dynamic range and the limited range setting.
                            However, the preview window in Edius and the external monitor show the same image in both settings: all values <16 are pure black and all values > 235 are pure white.
                            The VLC player therefore distinguishes between limited and full range while Edius uses the limited range in both cases.

                            I am very curious if other users, who also do not use special (Grass Valley) hardware for the external preview monitor and use other graphics cards than Intel UHD Graphics 630, experience the same problems and how they did solve this.

                            JackV

                            Driver Full Range.JPGDriver Limited Range.JPG

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              OHCI supports a maximum resolution of 1440x1080
                              when you connect the external mon to the graphics card, you will not see the full range because the EDIUS preview out is very limited, wait until you watch a camera pan via EDIUS preview
                              get a BM Mini Monitor, only $145 and connect the external mon via HDMI and select it in the preview device settings of EDIUS, you will now get the full range in 10bit
                              https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/pro...specs/W-DLK-05

                              or the 4k version for $195
                              https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/pro...specs/W-DLK-32
                              Anton Strauss
                              Antons Video Productions - Sydney

                              EDIUS X WG with BM Mini Monitor 4k and BM Mini Recorder, Gigabyte X299 UD4 Pro, Intel Core i9 9960X 16 Core, 32 Threads @ 4.3Ghz, Corsair Water Cooling, Gigabyte RTX-2070 Super 3X 8GB Video Card, Samsung 860 Pro 512GB SSD for System, 8TB Samsung Raid0 SSD for Video, 2 Pioneer BDR-209 Blu-ray/DVD burners, Hotswap Bay for 3.5" Sata and 2.5" SSD, Phanteks Enthoo Pro XL Tower, Corsair 32GB DDR4 Ram, Win10 Pro

                              Comment

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