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  • antonsvideo
    replied
    you need a GV or BM card in order to see the full range, in order to see the correct frame rate, in order to see correct component colors

    the graphics card output will give you a limited range, will cause picture tearing during pans because the refresh rate of a graphics card does usually not match the video, colors are wrong because PC mon are RGB

    Leave a comment:


  • JackV
    replied
    Hi Anton,

    Also known as Firewire or IEEE 1394, the OHCI interface is not a video card interface, as I previously thought, but is a standard used to exchange data with DV camcorders.
    I don't know a monitor with an IEEE 1394 interface and I suppose it's not the intention to use a DV camcorder as a preview device.
    Therefore, I don't understand why Generic OHCI is present in the Preview Device window, nor why this option is checked (I can't turn it off). Besides, my PC doesn't even have an OHCI controller installed.

    Does only a DeckLink Mini Monitor (or a GV device) offer the possibility to display the full range luminance on a monitor or can this also be done via a separate video card?
    In your Preview Device window I only see the DeckLink Mini Monitor and not the RTX-2070 video card that is also present on your system. Maybe you have an explanation?

    I am very disappointed that Edius, a professional product, does not offer the ability to adjust the luminance range of the Preview window to produce full-range RGB videos and the user has to purchase special hardware, while it easily can be fixed by software.

    Applying special hardware is not an option for me; I also alternately use my external monitor as an extended Windows screen while editing.

    Therefore, I am unfortunately forced to use the following method:
    1. Compress the Y range from 16-255 to 16-235 of all clips to see the full dynamic luminance range of the original recording
    2. Edit the clips (for correct display on the preview window, in real time Edius temporarily expands 16-235 to 0-255)
    3. Expand the Y-range of all clips from 16-235 to 0-255
    4. Export the video
    5. A full 0-255 range RGB screen or TV now correctly displays the full luminance range of the video.

    JackV

    Preview Device.png

    Leave a comment:


  • GrassValley_PS
    replied
    Originally posted by JackV View Post
    Besides using the preview window, I mainly use an external 1920x1080 preview monitor. This monitor is configured as an extended display of Windows. As a graphics card I use the Intel UHD Graphics 630 hardware and software, referred to in Edius as Generic OHCI.

    If I want to adjust the settings of the OHCI Preview Device (System settings> Hardware> Preview Device) I get the message: "Device doesn't support the current format. Unable to update settings. "
    I have no idea what the differences between the device and the current format could be and I don't get any information about that.

    JackV

    Driver Full Range.JPGDriver Limited Range.JPG
    A search on the forum would bring this up. If you don't have an external card, you will get this message. Basically it means you are using software out vs a hardware card. You can turn that message off if you like in System Settings.

    Leave a comment:


  • antonsvideo
    replied
    OHCI supports a maximum resolution of 1440x1080
    when you connect the external mon to the graphics card, you will not see the full range because the EDIUS preview out is very limited, wait until you watch a camera pan via EDIUS preview
    get a BM Mini Monitor, only $145 and connect the external mon via HDMI and select it in the preview device settings of EDIUS, you will now get the full range in 10bit
    https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/pro...specs/W-DLK-05

    or the 4k version for $195
    https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/pro...specs/W-DLK-32

    Leave a comment:


  • JackV
    replied
    Besides using the preview window, I mainly use an external 1920x1080 preview monitor. This monitor is configured as an extended display of Windows. As a graphics card I use the Intel UHD Graphics 630 hardware and software, referred to in Edius as Generic OHCI.

    If I want to adjust the settings of the OHCI Preview Device (System settings> Hardware> Preview Device) I get the message: "Device doesn't support the current format. Unable to update settings. "
    I have no idea what the differences between the device and the current format could be and I don't get any information about that.

    Intel UHD Graphics 630 meets the Edius requirements for the Graphics Card:
    – Supporting higher resolution than 1024×768 32-bit. Direct3D 9.0c or later and PixelShader Model 3.0 or later is required.
    – 512MB minimum video memory for SD/HD editing (2GB minimum video memory in 4K editing).

    The Intel UHD Graphics 630 driver can be set in "full range", in "limited range" or in "user settings" where, in the latter case, the application determines the desired setting.
    The images (bottom right on the VLC media player) show a difference between the full dynamic range and the limited range setting.
    However, the preview window in Edius and the external monitor show the same image in both settings: all values <16 are pure black and all values > 235 are pure white.
    The VLC player therefore distinguishes between limited and full range while Edius uses the limited range in both cases.

    I am very curious if other users, who also do not use special (Grass Valley) hardware for the external preview monitor and use other graphics cards than Intel UHD Graphics 630, experience the same problems and how they did solve this.

    JackV

    Driver Full Range.JPGDriver Limited Range.JPG

    Leave a comment:


  • antonsvideo
    replied
    AVP-0103.png

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  • antonsvideo
    replied
    ahahhh, you are looking at the EDIUS preview mon, I never look at that, whatever I see on my 50" external TV looks fine

    my external mon shows a clear step from 235 to 255, whereas the EDIUS preview does not, see attached

    the external Mon is connected via BM Mini Mon 4k and project is set to 10bit

    20200703_093255.jpg20200703_093234.jpg20200703_093303.jpg
    Last edited by antonsvideo; 07-03-2020, 12:42 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • JackV
    replied
    I have no problem processing still images; I had already applied 'super white' in the user settings you mentioned.

    I put the 5 images from my previous post in a short video to play with (e.g. with VLC media player). I hope it will now become clear what I want to demonstrate.
    Remember to set the video driver to full range or limited range to see the differences. Edius only shows the limited range in the preview monitor!

    My conclusion: If you want to edit full-range videos with Edius the best way is to compress the luminance range from 18-255 (or 0-255) to 16-235 before editing.

    https://1drv.ms/v/s!AhfYrSQf3v9UrgaJ...jDAWx?e=l5oAOc

    Leave a comment:


  • antonsvideo
    replied
    if you are referring to the handling of still images, you need to set to super white in user settings (prior to adding stills to the bin) to get the full range

    Anton-00604.png

    Leave a comment:


  • JackV
    replied
    ​Hi Anton, thank you for your response.

    I added an image with Y values 0, 16, 18, 235 and 255 that I used to set the compression values in the YUV curve filter, and 4 images with various filter settings. As expected Edius is clipping the luminance values &lt;16 and &gt;235.
    Surprisingly, QuickTitler appears to interpret the image correctly. As one would expect, the entire luminance range inclusive the ultra high lights is correctly shown on its display. Also Photoshop is showing the picture in the right way.

    In the next 4 pictures, I created using different filter settings, it can be clearly seen in the net curtains that cutting off the highlights by checking Safe Color or applying the settings as indicated on page 479 of the Edius 9.4 user manual results in a less qualitative image than compressing the Y values 18-255 to 16-235, so if you have to make use of the restricted range it should be better to compress the images than to clip the highlights.

    In my opinion, for all Edius users who are not bound by the limited luminance range, it will be a great improvement to be able to set the display range of the preview monitor in the project settings, for example 0-255, 16-235 or 16-255.

    JackV

    Leave a comment:


  • antonsvideo
    replied
    sorry, I gave you the wrong info

    in PCC filter, change from Display Light to Scene Light to get the full range

    AVP-0098.png

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  • antonsvideo
    replied
    Originally posted by JackV View Post
    I know the clip contains the full range, but that's to demonstrate that Edius' preview monitor doesn't display the Y values <16 and >235 even if the video driver is set to display the full range. There are many cameras that are able to capture full range and not everyone uses Edius for TV broadcasts.

    It's odd that the primary color correction filter adjusts the <16 values, but not the >235 values, even without having the option in this filter to set Safe Color.

    In my opinion, it makes no sense that Edius offers the ability to use Full Range Luminance and also allows the user to export in Full Range, but deprives the user of the ability to see the Full Range Luminance via the preview monitor in order to edit the clip correctly.

    To deal with the problem, I temporarily reduce the brightness of the clip and, after any adjustments, return it to its original value. In this way, the correct ratios between white and superwhite can be set without losing the information of the full luminance range.

    JackV
    you can disable the black clipping of the PCC filter
    disable both values
    Anton-00583.png

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  • JackV
    replied
    I know the clip contains the full range, but that's to demonstrate that Edius' preview monitor doesn't display the Y values <16 and >235 even if the video driver is set to display the full range. There are many cameras that are able to capture full range and not everyone uses Edius for TV broadcasts.

    It's odd that the primary color correction filter adjusts the <16 values, but not the >235 values, even without having the option in this filter to set Safe Color.

    In my opinion, it makes no sense that Edius offers the ability to use Full Range Luminance and also allows the user to export in Full Range, but deprives the user of the ability to see the Full Range Luminance via the preview monitor in order to edit the clip correctly.

    To deal with the problem, I temporarily reduce the brightness of the clip and, after any adjustments, return it to its original value. In this way, the correct ratios between white and superwhite can be set without losing the information of the full luminance range.

    JackV

    Leave a comment:


  • antonsvideo
    replied
    your clip displays the full range from 0 to 255

    however, if I add a primary color correction filter, the blacks are clipped instantly

    this behavior can be disabled if need be
    Attached Files

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  • Geoff_C
    replied
    Edius Scopes.jpg

    Edius 8WG. Magix Vegas Pro 17 echos Edius display. Am I missing something?

    G
    Last edited by Geoff_C; 06-17-2020, 06:04 PM. Reason: Checked with VP17

    Leave a comment:

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