Mp4 Creation and people who render with Handbrake

[tryingtolearn]

Hey guys, so I'm sure many of you know that on occasion when I've had issue exporting as MP4 the main response I've gotten on THIS edius forum is to do it with handbrake instead, and when I've argued back or questioned back asking why Edius can't get it right, I've been told handbrake is superior and to use that .. without much explanation as to why Edius was having the problems (IE people suggest transcoding with handbrake rather than troubleshooting what went wrong in the MP4)

I said something about handbrake on the edius facebook group, and was met with some very verbally abusive responses saying that nobody should ever have to use another program, handbrake or otherwise, and that anyone suggesting it was stupid or should be banned.. I tried to explain that that was the general consensus of advice often given in this group, but intsead of anyone answering me legitimately I was just vomited more abuse in the apparent official edius facebook group

It seems really confusing to me to get such varied reactions from this forum, vs the facebook thread

Obviously I ask questions because I want or need answers, and I always appreciate when I'm given answers that help me, but I'm really confused on this topic

I'm also confused by the extreme division between the facebook group answers and the answers here

help clarifying would be awesome. thanks guys

[GrassValley_PS]

First of all there is nothing WRONG with the h.264 from EDIUS. That is just misinformation (and as such you should not pass it on). What has been said here (and is true) is that using Handbrake will give you better quality in some instances.

The best information is given here. This is a specific forum. Facebook is … Facebook. There is more misinformation than real information in general. Although you may get some good information there it is a crapshoot.

It is safe to say that you will find more power users and "experts" here than you will on any Facebook page. This is also the place that has direct connections to GV.

[Captain]

What has been said here (and is true) is that using Handbrake will give you better quality in some instances.

Without having scientific data to verify my statement, pro users here found out that Handbrake is able to make more out of a good master - if you know which buttons you need to push in Handbrake. Generally it follows the rule:

# If same file size, Handbrake has a little more visible quality.
# If same visible quality, Handbrake manages to have less file size.
# To reach a significant optimization at all, Handbrake needs to be used with (almost) best quality settings - which results in tremendously longer render time compared to hardware accelerated Edius-h.264.

Try it on yourself: Take a one-minute-sequence in an Edius project and
# export an h.264 directly from Edius timeline. While doing so, measure the time Edius needs to export.
# after that, export the same timeline as a max-quality avi (GV HQX) and let in run through Handbrake in max quality. While doing so, measure both export/render times and add them.
# then: compare. Does it look different? And how much do the file sizes differ? And how much different is the export/render time on your computer?

Now you have all three factors (visible quality, file size, export/render time) to judge which way to go.

[tryingtolearn]

Thank you for your clarification! - The Edius Facebook group is being passed off as official - is that not the case then?
if I sent them the link to this page they would probably get more angry.

They kept saying if I was getting better results in another program then it meant that I was stupid and not setting my export settings correctly.

I tried explaining that handbrake is regularly suggested here on this official forum but they refused to believe me

[GrassValley_SL]

First of all there is nothing WRONG with the h.264 from EDIUS. That is just misinformation (and as such you should not pass it on). What has been said here (and is true) is that using Handbrake will give you better quality in some instances.

The best information is given here. This is a specific forum. Facebook is … Facebook. There is more misinformation than real information in general. Although you may get some good information there it is a crapshoot.

It is safe to say that you will find more power users and "experts" here than you will on any Facebook page. This is also the place that has direct connections to GV.

Totally agree . Also in 9.4 we do have more improvements for the encoding. Fast start is available.

There are some that have not tried the improvements and are posting with experiences with older versions of EDIUS. Granted to say that at real lower rates some external encoder with multipass will provide a bit better quality.

[LewS]

I have been following the conversation on that Facebook forum and they have told her repeatedly that there is NOTHING WRONG with the MP4 exporter in Edius and that there is "nothing to fix." They also explained why it is sometimes advantageous to use Handbrake in certain instances just as explained here. She is misquoting them and the users here who have tried to help her to no avail.

She also said below that if she sent them the link to this thread, they would get more angry, so, of course, she posted the link to this thread on that Facebook group. Obviously she is trying to provoke disagreement when there is none.

They finally said that if she is getting better results with Handbrake, she should just use that, which is good advice.

I have never had an issue with the MP4 exporter in Edius if the data rate is kept high enough. If I have to produce a very small file with good quality, then obviously a two-pass encoder like Handbrake is the proper tool for the job. That was pointed out to her on Facebook and here.

I applaud those who continue to try and point her in the right direction, but why bother?

Finally, the Edius Facebook group never passed itself off as being official, whatever that means.

[DigitalDave]

Time to put the record straight.
Sky Simone aka tryingtolearn posted on Facebook (screenshot attached)
"everyone in the Edius Forum...all say Edius has problems transcoding MP4"

Where are "everyone" ?

On Facebook you also posted "the default mp4 settings and they just don’t work - many people in the edits forum promote exporting with handbrake as edits stuffs it up - edits needs to fix this"

By "edits I assume you mean Edius, so what exactly is "stuffs it up" and what is it that needs to be fixed? I would suggest what needs to be fixed is the ability for you to take on board ANYTHING that you are told given you have been asking about mp4 here for over 4 years.

Here you claim that "I said something about handbrake on the edius facebook group, and was met with some very verbally abusive responses saying that nobody should ever have to use another program, handbrake or otherwise, and that anyone suggesting it was stupid or should be banned.. I tried to explain that that was the general consensus of advice often given in this group, but intsead of anyone answering me legitimately I was just vomited more abuse in the apparent official edius facebook group"

My reply is also attached. Since when has telling the truth and responding to Libellous comments ever been abuse. Personally I'm surprised the GV lawyers arent over you like a rash and being banned from the forums would be the least of your worries. GV and the forums as a minimum should have an apology.

...and BTW whilst I have been using Handbrake since the very early days, as I found out last week, sometimes EDIUS does a better job. https://forum.grassvalley.com/forum/...706#post320706

[Jerry]

I use 3 options.

1. The Edius encoder. This gives a very good encode for a single pass encoder.
You have the QS encode which is fast and depending on the bitrate, between OK to good.
Then you have the software version which runs off of the cores. If you have Edius 9, the encode will be faster than in previous versions because Edius 9 utilizes the cores better.

2. The TMPGE Movie AVC Plugin encoder. This gives excellent encodes with many options including dual pass directly from the Edius timeline. It is slower than the Edius encoder, but has many more setting options to improve quality.

3. Handbrake. Not a plugin. So, there is a time factor in creating an intermediary file to import into Handbrake.
I mainly use Handbrake to shrink file size. It retains the quality and shrinks the file size considerably.

[Jim N]

more info is here: https://forum.grassvalley.com/forum/...ad.php?t=36981

But the response from Andreas was basically that two pass encoding from Handbrake yields better results in some situations (as reflected in the advice above)

Also good advice not to bother with Social Media apps.

Always try searching here first. Forum members are very helpful...after a search!!!

[SDMich]

Thank you for your clarification! - The Edius Facebook group is being passed off as official - is that not the case then?
if I sent them the link to this page they would probably get more angry.

They kept saying if I was getting better results in another program then it meant that I was stupid and not setting my export settings correctly.

I tried explaining that handbrake is regularly suggested here on this official forum but they refused to believe me

The Facebook page has NEVER been passed off as official and it has never been stated that way. I would appreciate it if you would not say things that are not true in anyway.

[SDMich]

It seems really confusing to me to get such varied reactions from this forum, vs the facebook thread

I'm also confused by the extreme division between the facebook group answers and the answers here

help clarifying would be awesome. thanks guys

Actually the answers you got on Facebook were exactly like they were here. If you are having a problem then use the alternative. I agree that some of the users there were not kind and I apologize for that but there is no difference in the answers... Everyone said that it works but sometimes using Handbrake is desirable.

[tryingtolearn]

I've attached a screenshot of the facebook group description. I was under the impression that it was an Edius run group as nowhere in the description does it say 'this group is not run by edius'

There are plenty of posts on here by people (other than myself) and other posts by me, where people have been told to use Handbrake to convert an Edius AVI to .MP4 as they say it does a superior job to Edius

I've had AVI files myself that have no problems with them, and when I export the same timeline as MP4 part of it will look like it's scrambled - (not every video, maybe 1/20) no incorrect settings that I can see, and when I post the issue I'm told (in this forum) to convert with handbrake, and when I do voila, the video doesn't have the same issue.

I personally would rather not use handbrake. Edius is NOT a free program, and I don't want to have to translate something elsewhere,
so either a) if I'm doing something incorrectly I would like to troubleshoot that out (whole point of either a forum OR a facebook group OR creative cow etc)
but if it is some issue with the program, (if handbrake genuinely does a superior job then I would consider that an issue) then it needs to be resolved.

It's a shame some people on the facebook group replied with abusive language and condescending comments,

Michael Downey responded on my facebook post saying that he worked in Japan before Canopus went to Grass Valley, and that the Japanese creators "won't admit" to something that needs improving.

I'm sure whoever else on here is on the group saw that comment.
but yes it should be stipulated in their groups description if they aren't official because it does appear that way to my perception and it doesn't look good when somebody asks a legitimate question, and is then berated for it.



I personally havn't upgraded to 9 yet.. I want to but I'm trying to smooth out crash issues with Edius 8 pro on my new laptop, so that's my focus before I upgrade as I've seen a few threads that appear to indicate 9 crashing issues so I'd like to resolve my 8 crashing issue first

[DigitalDave]

I've attached a screenshot of the facebook group description. I was under the impression that it was an Edius run group as nowhere in the description does it say 'this group is not run by edius'

There are plenty of posts on here by people (other than myself) and other posts by me, where people have been told to use Handbrake to convert an Edius AVI to .MP4 as they say it does a superior job to Edius

I've had AVI files myself that have no problems with them, and when I export the same timeline as MP4 part of it will look like it's scrambled - (not every video, maybe 1/20) no incorrect settings that I can see, and when I post the issue I'm told (in this forum) to convert with handbrake, and when I do voila, the video doesn't have the same issue.

I personally would rather not use handbrake. Edius is NOT a free program, and I don't want to have to translate something elsewhere,
so either a) if I'm doing something incorrectly I would like to troubleshoot that out (whole point of either a forum OR a facebook group OR creative cow etc)
but if it is some issue with the program, (if handbrake genuinely does a superior job then I would consider that an issue) then it needs to be resolved.

It's a shame some people on the facebook group replied with abusive language and condescending comments,

Michael Downey responded on my facebook post saying that he worked in Japan before Canopus went to Grass Valley, and that the Japanese creators "won't admit" to something that needs improving.

I'm sure whoever else on here is on the group saw that comment.
but yes it should be stipulated in their groups description if they aren't official because it does appear that way to my perception and it doesn't look good when somebody asks a legitimate question, and is then berated for it.



I personally havn't upgraded to 9 yet.. I want to but I'm trying to smooth out crash issues with Edius 8 pro on my new laptop, so that's my focus before I upgrade as I've seen a few threads that appear to indicate 9 crashing issues so I'd like to resolve my 8 crashing issue first

Well that went well you've been removed from the Facebook group in question by Mike Downey.

[Haddock]

My 2 cents.

Installing EDius 9.4 to benefit of the quality in MP4 and maintain Edius 8 to work on heavy project is a working and stable solution... in my case

For heavy project 9 is not stable and crashes. So :

To export in MP4, I open the heavy project with Edius 9 - version 9.40.4803 ... (1800 files with 8 sequences - long and short) done with Edius 8 (2 versions sequences, long and short = 16 in total).
Saving with 9 under a name that correspond at the name sequences I need (short and long... globally same files).
Deleting all other sequences and Bin and saving again.
Re-opend 9 with the light project just recorded. Very quick opening because number of files are limited to the time lines and same for the long and short version in 2 sequencies.

Exporting in MP4. Very correct time export (Core i7 needs around 50 % of the real film time).

No crashes – Quality OK

Last point. I wonder if Facebook is a good way to have advices on Edius in comparison with this forum wich is very high quality....

[GrassValley_SL]

Sorry I cannot agree with you that you cannot use 9.4 with big projects.
I have done so and know 2 other people who have also edited big projects.
Also you need to run the latest version of EDIUS 9.4 on a system which is up on its drivers.