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Sony XDCAM EX1

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  • tingsern
    replied
    Gentlemen,

    I have been using Panasonic HVX202 when they first made it available in Singapore. And I have been using Edius Broadcast to edit P2 materials ... the amount of time saved (no capture, no hunting for separate scenes, etc) to be able to edit straight off (computer style) is immense. I don't grumble about how much it costs me to upgrade EDIUS to Broadcast - I treat it as part of the price paid to acquire the HVX202.

    I am certainly extremely surprised that some members don't practice the basic rule "caveat emptor" ... buying the Sony EX1, only to find their NLE don't support it. Surely, we should look at the entire picture first ... the camera is only a part of the entire game. The editing workstation, the software to support the camera, etc ...
    Last edited by tingsern; 01-05-2008, 03:16 PM.

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  • shueardm
    replied
    Originally posted by GrassValley_MD View Post
    ... I don't come across typing like it sounds in my head :)


    Mike
    It happens to the best. :)

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  • RandyD
    replied
    Hey Ronnie congrats on the camera. Let us know how it does shooting at the races....that should be a pretty good low light test.
    On the format be it MXF or MP4 it is nothing but a wrapper on a core mpeg2 so it isn't rocket science to implement a transcoded version but as Mike points out Edius Broadcast edits native....and it is a licensing thing...the real question is how much and should the cost keep it out of of Pro and only in Broadcast. I don't know and neither does anyone else here so it really is a dead end debate. We all like free but it is hard to feed your family free at the end of the day. Will PCE transcode it right now? cause if it can I would use the MP4 which has the 1920 and make it HQ anyway.I have broadcast but don't know whether the Pro version of Edius supports 1920 HQ? If so that is the ticket with the cam.
    Last edited by RandyD; 01-05-2008, 05:04 AM.

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  • GrassValley_MD
    replied
    Originally posted by shueardm View Post
    I'm with GV here- there is no reason to expect a new camera be supported by the standard program. New features should always be paid for. The only think I don't agree with is this

    Bug fixes should always be free.

    Mark

    I agree totally... the question was is it worth it to upgrade and I pointed out features and added the fixes on the end... sorry if it sounded otherwise... I don't come across typing like it sounds in my head :)


    Mike

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  • STORMDAVE
    replied
    4.6 is going to be for both Pro and Broadcast dongles...these versions are unified. If you don't have the Broadcast dongle, the extra codecs will not show up at all.

    That's the only difference, I hope people understand it.

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  • shueardm
    replied
    Originally posted by GrassValley_KH View Post
    Correct, and within a software's lifecycle, it will continue to be. However, software lifecycles don't last forever, and depending on the resources available, may not be feasible to continually update older software packages that are now EOL.

    E.G. we currently only issue EDIUS updates for the v4.x product.
    That's fine so long as there are no (bad) bugs still hanging around in version 3. After all, if you charge for a feature set that didn't work, you can't turn your back on it and say it's fixed in the next version. But this thread is about the EX1- and no one should hold it against you (for making it available in Broadcast only)

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  • GrassValley_KH
    replied
    Correct, and within a software's lifecycle, it will continue to be. However, software lifecycles don't last forever, and depending on the resources available, may not be feasible to continually update older software packages that are now EOL.

    E.G. we currently only issue EDIUS updates for the v4.x product.

    Leave a comment:


  • shueardm
    replied
    I'm with GV here- there is no reason to expect a new camera be supported by the standard program. New features should always be paid for. The only think I don't agree with is this
    Originally posted by GrassValley_MD View Post
    and bug fixes have made the upgrades well worth it for many folks.

    Mike
    Bug fixes should always be free.

    Mark

    Leave a comment:


  • GrassValley_MD
    replied
    Originally posted by ChrisFar View Post
    Now, be honest and tell me if my upgrading to the Pro version of Edius was a good purchase.

    Actually, only you can answer that question. There are thousands of users that feel that upgrading to 4.x and then 4.5 Pro was well worth it because of features and fixes.

    I did so not imaging that it would not supports certain cameras. Now if thats the case, and I need Broadcast, I need to make a purchase decision based on Vegas,or FCP at x amount, and Edius Broadcast not Edius Pro Right? Which as a loyal Canopus customer means I have wasted my dollars on continuously upgrading Edius to Pro, unless I upgrade to Broadcast.
    First, it supports all cameras. All Cameras can off load video through firewire or analog outputs, so there are no cameras that are not supported.

    Second, you just have to upgrade... not purchase it full price. So yes, like at any other time you make a purchase you would have to look at options based on the upgrade price.

    The reason there is a difference between the two is to save folks money that do not need the codec support... like you.
    When the codecs are needed it can be upgraded to.

    So, are the upgrades worth it? Multi sequence and MultiCAM, just to name 2 HUGE reasons why the upgrades were worth it, not to mention all of the smaller feature upgrades and bug fixes have made the upgrades well worth it for many folks.

    So if you upgraded just to get camera support and NONE of the other features then you upgraded the wrong way and it was not worth it for you, but it seems with the way people have reacted to the multicam and other new features you are in the minority.


    Mike

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  • GrassValley_MD
    replied
    Guys... please... lets settle it down.

    When P2 and XDCam came along there was no big uproar over the Pro vs. Broadcast versions so please forgive our suprise at the excitement by a few that is being made here.

    We treat these formats differently then the other companies do as well.

    We actually do NOTHING to the files, not a transcode or re-wrap.

    Because of this we can edit straight from the card which is a HUGE deal to the broadcast industry.

    Other companies (including Sony themselves) do not go to this trouble, so it is really not comparing apples to apples to compare us to the other companies.

    I am sorry that folks are not happy with this but at the moment it is the way it is.

    We are very commited to our customers and there are many folks inside of the company fighting for you the customer. If anyone says they are an insider and says anything different they are not an insider :)

    Mike

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  • STORMDAVE
    replied
    Originally posted by dano3655 View Post
    steve,

    i do not "cry" about nle's being able to support my camera gear. if i would like to complain on this bbs ...i will. if you do not like what i have to say either don't read it or don't comment about it.

    dano
    That was just uncalled for, Dano. You seriously need to work on your people skills. You're the one coming off as a "you know what".

    The EX uses the XDCAM format, and XDCAM costs extra money in the Edius world. What's hard to understand about this?

    Companies such as Apple are able to offer EX1 support in apps such as FCP because guess what? They have a "special agreement" with Sony because FCP is huge in the docu market.

    HDV is a consumer format, so any HDV camcorder will work with EDIUS Pro. DVCAM/DV very similar, so EDIUS will work with your DSR390 or whatever other DV device that you have.

    I didn't see the P2 users complaining...the workflow is similar to the EX1 and they had to pay for the broadcast update, and so should you if you want Full HD capability of the EX1.

    What's so hard to understand here?
    Last edited by STORMDAVE; 01-05-2008, 01:03 AM.

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  • dano3655
    replied
    for steve again

    steve,

    i do not "cry" about nle's being able to support my camera gear. if i would like to complain on this bbs ...i will. if you do not like what i have to say either don't read it or don't comment about it.

    dano

    Originally posted by SRsupport View Post
    That's not the logic.

    If you spent 7000 on a camera why would you cry to shell out 400 for an upgrade of your nle.

    You seem to be forgetting that the EX is 1920x1080, a different codec/wrapper which needs licensing.

    a 1 dollar dv camera or 10000000000 dollar dv camera use the same dv codec.
    They both will be 720x480.

    And before you invest in a camcorder you should first look and the edit delevery workflow.
    I you do that you will see that gv never ever said that edius pro would support the EX.

    Why complain then???





    Man.............I am done with this.

    Leave a comment:


  • STORMDAVE
    replied
    Originally posted by ChrisFar View Post
    As an Edius 1.0 original user, how about an upgrade special for early adopters to Broadcast? Will the Broadcast version eventually replace the Pro version as newer cameras come out? Should the Pro version even be purchased by new users? Is Edius only for Pro's who can afford the upgrades? As a dreaded wedding videographer I have been paying for Edius for a long time(since 1.0) and although I like it, I am not to happy about having to plunk down more dough so I can use a EX. The functionality should be in the Pro version, it is a disappointment, and I do not agree it should just be assumed as the cost of being a Pro.
    Chris
    Grass Valley has to pay licensing fees to both Sony & Panasonic...this is why the "upgrade" to Broadcast cost $400. Edius 4 Broadcast (Full) itself is $999 or so.

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  • GrassValley_KH
    replied
    Chris, if you want to use EX1, upgrade to Broadcast - that's how it works. Future upgrades work on the same level/pricing.

    For example, a person upgrading from Pro 3 to Pro 4, pays the same amount as someone upgrading Broadcast 3 to Broadcast 4.

    You can also upgrade Pro 3 to Broadcast 4, but the price will be different than the above.

    As for the comments here, please try to keep the following in mind:
    - There was never any promise of EX1 support to either be free, or in EDIUS Pro (prior to v4.6's unveiling at InterBee). As it turns out, it will be free for EDIUS Broadcast owners. Buying a product with the expectation that something will be added in the future for absolutely no charge, is definitely a gamble and isn't exactly a sensible consumer practice
    - Product names aside, EDIUS format support works this way - consumer cameras/equipment for Pro, higher-end, non-tape for Broadcast. This model has been in effect since the beginning of EDIUS Broadcast
    - A special upgrade price (for a limited time) from Pro to Broadcast, isn't impossible - it just needs planning. I have no information on if or when such a promotion would happen

    We are well aware that the EX1 has created some new excitement in the prosumer market, and we will be working to ensure that everyone can get their hands into these new formats as easily possible, within the current software licensing model.

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  • SRsupport
    replied
    Originally posted by dano3655 View Post
    i do not see how the price of the camera should affect the nle from being able to edit (codec i guess) the video. the ex camera is @ 7k. i have a sony dsr 390 @ 9k. i have another 570 @ 12k. they work fine with edius pro.

    your logic, in regard to camera price vs an nle to accept its format, does not add up.


    dano
    That's not the logic.

    If you spent 7000 on a camera why would you cry to shell out 400 for an upgrade of your nle.

    You seem to be forgetting that the EX is 1920x1080, a different codec/wrapper which needs licensing.

    a 1 dollar dv camera or 10000000000 dollar dv camera use the same dv codec.
    They both will be 720x480.

    And before you invest in a camcorder you should first look and the edit delevery workflow.
    I you do that you will see that gv never ever said that edius pro would support the EX.

    Why complain then???





    Man.............I am done with this.
    Last edited by SRsupport; 01-04-2008, 10:17 PM.

    Leave a comment:

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