serious problem, please help!

[djozy]

I searched this forum and i couldn't find any solution to this problem.
I have 6 computers with no canopus hardware, i'm editing in SD 50i PAL format.

I have edius in 4.24 version in all computers.

The problem.
During editing I'm moving on some frame that make all the file that this frame came from "scrambled" (see attachment).
every time i'm playing "throgh" that frame I se it all scrambld until i restart my project.
If I delete this specific frame it doesnt happend.
It could be several frames on each clip.

- It happens in all computers.
- each computer has different hardware (MB,graphoc card, etc..)
- I tried in older versions also.

Please help.

[Bluetongue]

It looks a little like the original on tape is corrupted, bad section of tape.
If you reload is the problem still in the same place.
Barry

[djozy]

yes but it happens on almost every movie i edit.
It couldnt be that all the tapes and vtr's are defective.
It must be a solution for it because It accures even after export.

[Bluetongue]

yes but it happens on almost every movie i edit.
It couldnt be that all the tapes and vtr's are defective.
It must be a solution for it because It accures even after export.

First we need to get to what the cause is so here are a few tips and questions
1: Is it on every clip or does it happen randomly
2: Is it in the same place every time the clips are loaded
3: How long since the camera's were serviced
4: Are all the Tapes the SAME brand if not there could be a problem as some tapes have a WET lubricant and some have a DRY lubricant and they cannot be mixed.
The wet lubricant coats the head and tape runners and when a dry tape is used it collects material from the tape and eventually clogs the heads! NASTY
Dry tapes I know of are TDK, Canon, Panasonic and SKC
the only wet tape I know of is SONY, there are probably more
On the servicing side if the tape runners are worn the tape will not sit on the head correctly and give error artifacts similar to those shown.
If the answer to 1 and 2 is yes then there is a good possibility it is tape related.
3 and 4 it could be camera related and once it is on the computer it will be there in the final video.
You mentioned that if you deleted the frames it did not re appear, if this is the case it has to be from the camera to the capture process.
Regards Barry

[djozy]

1: Is it on every clip or does it happen randomly - RANDOMLY2: Is it in the same place every time the clips are loaded - YES
3: How long since the camera's were serviced - I'm editing for many custumers, i cannot chech their cameras.
4: Are all the Tapes the SAME brand if not there could be a problem as some tapes have a WET lubricant and some have a DRY lubricant and they cannot be mixed. - ALL DSR-11


** Why thid is not happening on other editing programs like "premiere" with the same tapes and vtr's?

[Bluetongue]

** Why thid is not happening on other editing programs like "premiere" with the same tapes and vtr's?

You did not mention that before.
I take it from that the same tapes and clips work OK in another program, if so is it on the same computers and what are your capture and project settings for Edius
for SD there are a number of codec settings available, if you are using Just Edius then CanopusHQ AVI is excellent or DV AVI it you want to use in say Premier, any of the others and you could be overloading the capture process
Regards Barry

[djozy]

You did not mention that before.
I take it from that the same tapes and clips work OK in another program, if so is it on the same computers and what are your capture and project settings for Edius
for SD there are a number of codec settings available, if you are using Just Edius then CanopusHQ AVI is excellent or DV AVI it you want to use in say Premier, any of the others and you could be overloading the capture process
Regards Barry

Can i use canopus HQ in SD mode without any hardware?
Usually i use "DV 50i 3:4 48Khz"

[Bluetongue]

Yes you can it handles all resolutions, the files are slightly larger for SD but not much, and it supports transparent Alpha.
There should not have been any problem using the DV AVI preset anyway but who nows
Regards Barry

[djozy]

Yes you can it handles all resolutions, the files are slightly larger for SD but not much, and it supports transparent Alpha.
There should not have been any problem using the DV AVI preset anyway but who nows
Regards Barry

And you think it will solve my problem?
Because thats all i care about right now.

[Bluetongue]

I will be highly surprised if it does but worth a try. the sort of problem you are having I have not seen in Edius it has always been external (Tape and Camera) but not full frame, only around a few lines to half frame, that is the worst I have seen.
You mentioned the clips worked in Premier, were they captured by Premier or was that some time ago as tapes can also deteriate if left lying on their side, another problem I forgot about
Regards Barry

[djozy]

I will be highly surprised if it does but worth a try. the sort of problem you are having I have not seen in Edius it has always been external (Tape and Camera) but not full frame, only around a few lines to half frame, that is the worst I have seen.
You mentioned the clips worked in Premier, were they captured by Premier or was that some time ago as tapes can also deteriate if left lying on their side, another problem I forgot about
Regards Barry

The problem that after I play over that defective frame, the picture stays scrambled on the timline all the time until i restart the project.

[Imagine Video]

OK I have had this:

The tape is from a CANNON camera and your using a SONY device to play it back! correct????

If so I asked the customer for the camera it had been recorded on and all was well.....

Tapes in cannon cameras play poorly in sony equipment in my experience!!

[djozy]

OK I have had this:

The tape is from a CANNON camera and your using a SONY device to play it back! correct????

If so I asked the customer for the camera it had been recorded on and all was well.....

Tapes in cannon cameras play poorly in sony equipment in my experience!!

Maybr you are right but still, if i will play the same clip on premiere, i will see a drooped frame and thats it,
In edius It stays scrambled untill i restart the project and then i can skip this frame and everything will be fine.
Like EDIUS doesnt refresh itself after the drop.
It's a bug on Edius an maybe you didnt saw it because I use PAL.

there must be a solution for this bug

[tingsern]

OK I have had this:

The tape is from a CANNON camera and your using a SONY device to play it back! correct????

If so I asked the customer for the camera it had been recorded on and all was well.....

Tapes in cannon cameras play poorly in sony equipment in my experience!!

Hi, not true here ... I have a Canon XL2 and I use Sony DSR-25 Tape Drive to read the tapes. I don't have any problems whatsoever. I also have a Panasonic HVX202 (HD/SD) camera - recorded some test SD clips to tape and read it back on DSR-25. Zero problems. I don't use tapes on HVX202 anymore - prefer to use P2 cards - direct access and also no wasting time doing capture.

The DV tapes are Panasonic professional grade - not those "cheap" DV tapes.

[Fred Dwyer]

djozy:
Reading your description of this problem has been a bit confusing for me. Now that you explain that your clip DOES NOT play alright in Premiere, but rather drops the frame which concerns you, I think I have a clear picture. Is the following correct?
1. You experience distorted individual frames in many clips.
2. These distorted frames do not change in a specific clip, they are really specific distorted frames captured that way from the cameras.
3. In Premiere these frames manifest simply as a dropped frame.
4. In your EDIUS when playing the time line if one of these distorted frames is encountered, the distortion appears to carry over and the remainder of that clip plays in a distorted fashion.
5. Stopping the playback and restarting clears up the distortion.

If the above is correct, we can conclude that your clients' cameras tend to record occaisional bad frames. Not a surprise particularly if we are dealing with consumer level equipment.
Secondly, it seems that EDIUS is not handeling thse bad frames well. You might begin by upgrading EDIUS to the latest released version.