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Keyframes, Zoom, and Tracker: undesired dependencies

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  • Keyframes, Zoom, and Tracker: undesired dependencies

    Hi folks, I don't know If you met these in EDIUS 8, but these are no fun if you hit them:
    If you add a tracker to your clip (similar happened in EDIUS 7 with the layouter and keyframes, BTW), and later decide to modify the speed of the clip, you will find that the keyframes the tracker uses are not adjusted together with clip speed, effectively bringing them "off course".
    Today I found out that when using the layouter to zoom and pan your clip, your tracker masks will be anywhere but the place they should be.
    EDIUS should adjust those, not the user!

  • #2
    if you downgrade to EDIUS5 or earlier, you will have 3D PIP keyer and it has elastic keyframes that stay in time no matter what you do to the clip speed
    Anton Strauss
    Antons Video Productions - Sydney

    EDIUS X WG with BM Mini Monitor 4k and BM Mini Recorder, Gigabyte X299 UD4 Pro, Intel Core i9 9960X 16 Core, 32 Threads @ 4.3Ghz, Corsair Water Cooling, Gigabyte RTX-2070 Super 3X 8GB Video Card, Samsung 860 Pro 512GB SSD for System, 8TB Samsung Raid0 SSD for Video, 2 Pioneer BDR-209 Blu-ray/DVD burners, Hotswap Bay for 3.5" Sata and 2.5" SSD, Phanteks Enthoo Pro XL Tower, Corsair 32GB DDR4 Ram, Win10 Pro

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    • #3
      Originally posted by antonsvideo
      if you downgrade to EDIUS5 or earlier, you will have 3D PIP keyer and it has elastic keyframes that stay in time no matter what you do to the clip speed
      LOL screw that.
      I7-6900K, X99 Taichi, Geforce GTX 1070, Corsair RM850X, Corsair H100 IV2, Windows 10, Edius WG 9.30

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      • #4
        Originally posted by antonsvideo
        if you downgrade to EDIUS5 or earlier(...)
        Sorry, I started with version 6...

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        • #5
          I think you have two issues. The first is the fact that with keyframes in EDIUS these days the keyframes are locked and do not scale. In older filters like the 3D picture in picture they would move if you change the length of the clip - slowed it down for example. I personally prefer the new way.

          The simplest solution would be to nest the clip - i.e. put it in a sequence and then apply a speed change to that sequence.

          The second problem is applying a layouter to a mask. I think you just have them the wrong way round. If you apply the layouter before the mask the clip moves around behind the mask. If you apply the layouter after the mask then the mask is applied and the entire final frame is moved around. Try dragging the layouter under the mask and see if that does what you want.

          These is an example of this layouter/mask thing in this video I made some time ago, at about 8 minutes in : https://youtu.be/Rv9iVpj1k-I
          EDIUS silver certified trainer.
          Main edit laptop: DVC Kaby Lake desktop processor laptop, 32GB RAM, 3.5Ghz i5 desktop processor, nVidia 1060, Windows 10.
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          • #6
            Hi:

            The simplest solution would be to nest the clip - i.e. put it in a sequence and then apply a speed change to that sequence.
            Thats a good tip; thanks

            kurt
            HW: ASUS Z170-A; Proz: i7-6700K; RAM: 32 GB DDR4; GPU: RTX-3070, 8GB GDDR5; SSD: SAMSUNG-850-Pro, 500 GB
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            • #7
              Originally posted by David Clarke
              I think you have two issues. The first is the fact that with keyframes in EDIUS these days the keyframes are locked and do not scale. In older filters like the 3D picture in picture they would move if you change the length of the clip - slowed it down for example. I personally prefer the new way.

              The simplest solution would be to nest the clip - i.e. put it in a sequence and then apply a speed change to that sequence.

              The second problem is applying a layouter to a mask. I think you just have them the wrong way round. If you apply the layouter before the mask the clip moves around behind the mask. If you apply the layouter after the mask then the mask is applied and the entire final frame is moved around. Try dragging the layouter under the mask and see if that does what you want.
              OK, I see that there are work-arounds:
              • Use nesting of a sequence to keep keyframes happy: I'm surprised that virtually adding more complexity simplifies things for the user. Could it be that the root cause of the problem is that any speed change does not appear in the effects list? If so I could use the second work-around, maybe.
              • Rearrange the order of effects to keep the masks in place: This sounds simple.


              I think the main problem is that EDIUS does not show a warning if the user obviously ruins his previous work (by using the forementioned operations), and the user may not notice in time to undo or fix the mistake.
              Sometimes things work in EDIUS that you would not expect (positive surprise, like adding effects to sequences that already have effects inside), sometimes things don't work in EDIUS that you would expect to work (like moving keyframes with a change in time scale).

              Is there a dependency between the layouter and the stabilizer also?

              So you must know EDIUS quite well to use it's features and to avaid mistakes. The manual leaves you quite alone there, but good that we have this forum!
              Originally posted by David Clarke
              There is an example of this layouter/mask thing in this video I made some time ago, at about 8 minutes in : https://youtu.be/Rv9iVpj1k-I
              Yes that video is nice (good example!); it's secret #9, BTW.

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              • #8
                You are right, nesting makes it more complicated. When it comes to keyframes you only have two options. If you make the clip longer do they stretch out or stay where they are. EDIUS chooses to have them stay where they are, as does Premiere. If I had a choice I would want them how EDIUS does it now. A feature request would be to have an preference so you could choose the default behaviour in the user settings.

                The order of effects is pretty standard in all programs. The stabiliser must always go first and when you add it that is where it will go. After that you just need to get them in the right order. You do have to learn it but that is pretty too of any complicated editing program.
                EDIUS silver certified trainer.
                Main edit laptop: DVC Kaby Lake desktop processor laptop, 32GB RAM, 3.5Ghz i5 desktop processor, nVidia 1060, Windows 10.
                Desktop: 4Ghz 9900K processor, 32GB RAM, nVidia 1660TI GPU, Windows 10.
                Desktop: 2Ghz 12 core Xeon processor, 32GB RAM, nVidia 1060, BM Intensity Pro, Windows 10

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by David Clarke
                  (...) A feature request would be to have an preference so you could choose the default behaviour in the user settings.(...)
                  Actually I think the setting should NOT be user-wide, but per layouter (i.e.: where the keyframes are defined): Scale them with time or not.

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                  • #10
                    The back story to this is that, at the time, most people wanted that action to change to what it is now. Just shows that you can't please everyone.
                    1: Intel 13900K, Asus ROG Z790 Hero, G. Skill Trident Z5 6400 64G DDR5, Asus Tuff Gaming GeForce 4070Ti, WD SN850XNVMe 1T, 4T (2), Seagate IronWolf NAS 7200 14TB, Lian Li Galahad 360, Aja Kona 4, Super Flower Leadex Platinum 1600W

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                    • #11
                      Yep I remember that too well. :)
                      Steve

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