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  • Best render format

    Was wondering if there is any difference betwen these?

    Click to Enlarge

    I have an 1080i HD camera as you can see. And I export in mpeg2 HD.
    Last edited by GrassValley_SL; 08-17-2016, 03:42 PM. Reason: created thumbnail

  • #2
    Difference between what? The different render codec options? Yes they are all different codecs.

    The render codec governs the format into which clips are rendered, if you render when editing. It is not to do with the codec into which you make the final movie. If you render something then export it, you are remaking it twice - once when rendered and once when exported. Every time you remake something - unless you remake it into uncompressed or lossless - you loose something. Some codecs loose more than others which is why you have different choices here. Choose lossless/uncompressed and you will loose nothing when rendering, but make large render files which maybe so big your computer cannot play them back. Choose anything else and you will loose some thing - how much depends on the codec.

    The best choice is normally Grass Valley HQ for 8 bit and HQX for 10 bit.

    BTW the amount you loose by remaking is nothing compared to how much quality would be lost when editing one video tape to another which we used to do in the "old days". We have all become so picky these days. ;-)
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    • #3
      Originally posted by David Clarke View Post
      Difference between what? The different render codec options? Yes they are all different codecs.

      The render codec governs the format into which clips are rendered, if you render when editing. It is not to do with the codec into which you make the final movie. If you render something then export it, you are remaking it twice - once when rendered and once when exported. Every time you remake something - unless you remake it into uncompressed or lossless - you loose something. Some codecs loose more than others which is why you have different choices here. Choose lossless/uncompressed and you will loose nothing when rendering, but make large render files which maybe so big your computer cannot play them back. Choose anything else and you will loose some thing - how much depends on the codec.

      The best choice is normally Grass Valley HQ for 8 bit and HQX for 10 bit.

      BTW the amount you loose by remaking is nothing compared to how much quality would be lost when editing one video tape to another which we used to do in the "old days". We have all become so picky these days. ;-)



      This is a good explanation to understand the purpose of the Lossless setting.

      However I'm currently trying to figure out once I'm absolutely done with changing something, the best avi to keep 'just in case'
      I looked at this thread
      http://forum.grassvalley.com/forum/a...p/t-24392.html

      It is confusing when there is
      offline
      online
      fine
      standard
      for each option
      then there's also HQ and HQX

      If I don't want the massive file sizes of Lossless, which should I choose?
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      • #4
        Originally posted by tryingtolearn View Post
        It is confusing when there is
        offline
        online
        fine
        standard
        for each option
        then there's also HQ and HQX

        If I don't want the massive file sizes of Lossless, which should I choose?
        These settings reflect the internal or "Intermediate CODECs".
        They're generally dependent on your use and performance requirements...

        Lower rez renders faster.
        HQX is for non-standard dimensions up to 8K and is required for 4K, etc.

        imo, Standard HQ is great for everyday HD and indistinguishable from HQX.

        Lossless is often used for exchange to other platforms. (Mac or compositors)

        In the end you can delete all renders and export from the original files.
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        • #5
          @tryingtolearn
          The answer has been given already in another thread!
          Best quality/size ratio is "fine" / "Superfine"!
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          • #6
            Originally posted by David Clarke View Post
            Difference between what? The different render codec options? Yes they are all different codecs.

            The render codec governs the format into which clips are rendered, if you render when editing. It is not to do with the codec into which you make the final movie. If you render something then export it, you are remaking it twice - once when rendered and once when exported. Every time you remake something - unless you remake it into uncompressed or lossless - you loose something. Some codecs loose more than others which is why you have different choices here. Choose lossless/uncompressed and you will loose nothing when rendering, but make large render files which maybe so big your computer cannot play them back. Choose anything else and you will loose some thing - how much depends on the codec.

            The best choice is normally Grass Valley HQ for 8 bit and HQX for 10 bit.

            BTW the amount you loose by remaking is nothing compared to how much quality would be lost when editing one video tape to another which we used to do in the "old days". We have all become so picky these days. ;-)
            David,

            To follow up, is the rendered area used at all in the final output? Meaning if I choose a very low setting for rendering will it affect my very high setting for final output quality?

            If not then what are you losing or gaining by selecting a very low or very high quality render codec? I only render to be able to playback heavy areas in realtime. Seems like a low quality render codec for speed would always be the best choice.
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            • #7
              It does depend on the codec, but assuming you choose HQ/HQX I think that is used in the final render.

              I always render in the good quality. I only render when I need to see what something looks like that does not playback properly. If I render in low res I cannot be sure if what I am seeing is exactly when I will get on export. If I scrub through it and I am happy it will look ok on export then I don't render at all. If you don't render it will still be made properly when the final file is made.

              So for me it is good quality or nothing.
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              • #8
                Thanks. If there is any question then I agree, high quality for the codec.
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                • #9
                  Without turning this into a debate about codecs, I would like to add one point for those of you like Sky that seem to be really struggling with codec choices.

                  If you shoot using a camera that creates the footage using a given codec, (ie. DSLR cameras tend to use a heavily compressed "lossy" long GOP H264 codec), then converting to another codec will not make the footage any better quality than the original.

                  If you do convert to another codec like the HQ/HQX codecs, it will benefit you in the editing, in the sense that the codec is still compressed, so you don't need as fast a hard drive to play it, but is not nearly as heavily compressed as the original long GOP H264 files. This makes it easier on system to edit, as there is less math to decode the files, and the less compressed codecs tend to stand up better to effects processing, introducing less compression artifacts. All of this results in better retained quality after processing and a snappier system when editing, at the expense of the files being larger.

                  The "Holy Grail" is always some kind of uncompressed or lossless file, but to truly get the quality that an uncompressed file is capable of, the footage needs to be uncompressed at all times, from acquisition to editing, to delivery. The very first time an image is compressed with a "lossy" codec, there is something lost, and converting to an uncompressed file can not restore the parts that were lost. In this sense, I would recommend using the HQ/HQX Codecs instead of the lossless codecs, unless you are originating from an uncompressed file. (I tend to prefer the HQX codec due to the support for 10bit colour space)

                  To simplify:
                  Less compression = Faster and more accurate editing and processing, at the expense of file size. Tends to use less CPU power to decode, but requires faster hard drives to play the files.

                  More compression = more sluggish editing performance and greater chance of compression artifacting and processing errors. Tends to use more CPU power to decode, but can use slower hard drives to play back.

                  Generally, the higher the bitrate of the file, the less compression there is. If the codec is a long GOP codec like H264, HDV, DVD's MPEG2-IBP, it is very lossy, as the majority of the video frames are "calculated" and not fully encoded. Codecs designed for editing are normally "I-Frame" codecs where every frame is fully encoded, and doesn't require rebuilding frame information from adjacent frames the way a long GOP codec does. Some of these I-Frame codecs are variable bitrate, and some are constant bitrate, but in either case there is a lot more encoded information in them than there is in a long GOP codec.
                  Last edited by BernH; 09-09-2016, 03:35 AM. Reason: fix typos
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