down converting hd to sd

[kungperra]

Thanks imagine video! I will definitely try that!

Maybe this is where i have gone wrong all along in my testing... I thought GDVSPLIT just took the "raw" files from the camera during capture, that is what i thought was the best way of getting the files to my diskdrive in best possible uncompressed way, but maybe when doing the conversion as you say it will be a problem...

This will mean another sleepless late night trying for the ultimate picture!

Thanks again, my hopes are now lit up again! :)

//Perra

[Bluetongue]

Converting from HD to SD can be as easy or as hard as you like
My process is as follows and the results are brilliant, better than editing in SD
Capture in Edius converting to Canopus HQ set to FINE, Edius breaks the video into individual clips.
Edit in HD (Canopus HQ AVI) far easier than trying to use m2t mpeg files.
Output to either DVD Mpeg through Procoder 3 set to "Mastering" 8000kb
With separate Audio in AC3 (Audio is done as a separate encode in Procoder due to known problems with AC3)
Author in DVDLab
Output to HDV for display using a DVICO TViX.
And just for the record I use Software only!
Regards Barry

[Jerry]

Converting from HD to SD can be as easy or as hard as you like
My process is as follows and the results are brilliant, better than editing in SD
Capture in Edius converting to Canopus HQ set to FINE, Edius breaks the video into individual clips.
Edit in HD (Canopus HQ AVI) far easier than trying to use m2t mpeg files.
Output to either DVD Mpeg through Procoder 3 set to "Mastering" 8000kb
With separate Audio in AC3 (Audio is done as a separate encode in Procoder due to known problems with AC3)
Author in DVDLab
Output to HDV for display using a DVICO TViX.
And just for the record I use Software only!
Regards Barry

Barry,
Basically, you are doing the same scenario as I am, with the exception of editing in 1440x1080 and using all Canopus HQ files.

[kungperra]

Hi again

Ok, ive done a quick test capturing in Edius this time to Canopus HQ AVI.
took a clip and used procoder express to output the results directly to DVD.
The results from that wasnt so good, BUT i saw in the settings that i used HQ settings as STANDARD, so i guess i have to try this tomorrow again, and set it to FINE, as i guess that can make some diffrence. Is the "fine" setting enough, or can you get another step in quality if you adjust the settings further? any "optimum" settings in that case?

And as i dont have access to Procoder 3, is there anyone that can tell me if the quality is a big diffrence from procoder express?

Thanks!

//Perra
Canon HV20

[Martin_Gleeson]

Hi again

Ok, ive done a quick test capturing in Edius this time to Canopus HQ AVI.
took a clip and used procoder express to output the results directly to DVD.
The results from that wasnt so good, BUT i saw in the settings that i used HQ settings as STANDARD, so i guess i have to try this tomorrow again, and set it to FINE, as i guess that can make some diffrence. Is the "fine" setting enough, or can you get another step in quality if you adjust the settings further? any "optimum" settings in that case?

And as i dont have access to Procoder 3, is there anyone that can tell me if the quality is a big diffrence from procoder express?

Thanks!

//Perra
Canon HV20

I've tried this and there is no perceptable different in quality between HQ captured from m2t's as Fine or Standard. The only difference is in file size - That is: The following files captured from a HDV camera using 1440x1080i have the exact same quality:

Canopus HQ - Standard
Canopus HQ - Fine
m2t file.

[Bluetongue]

Ok, ive done a quick test capturing in Edius this time to Canopus HQ AVI.
took a clip and used procoder express to output the results directly to DVD.
The results from that wasnt so good, BUT i saw in the settings that i used HQ settings as STANDARD, so i guess i have to try this tomorrow again, and set it to FINE, as i guess that can make some diffrence. Is the "fine" setting enough, or can you get another step in quality if you adjust the settings further? any "optimum" settings in that case?

And as i dont have access to Procoder 3, is there anyone that can tell me if the quality is a big diffrence from procoder express?

I Have used Procoder Express with good results
Follow these settings and see if it is any better quality
Open/ export to Procoder Express
Select DVD
Select TV Standard PAL/NTSC which ever
Select Program Stream (Gives compressed MPEG Audio)
Select 2 Pass Variable Bit rate
Make sure 60 min length is selected (Gives best quality picture with few artifacts, if your video is longer then go for the 90 min
DVD Optimization set for Quality
Select file name and where to store the file
A warning will appear warning about you cannot use 2 pass click "YES" to the question, I am not sure why this appears as 2 pass can be used.
Click on the Advanced settings button
Make sure the following are selected
Aspect Ratio 4x3 or 16x9
Quality/speed - "Highest Quality"
Bit Rate type - VBR (Variable Bitrat)
Number of Passes - 2
Video Bit Rate - Change to 8000
leave the Max bit rate where it is at 9100 there is little difference if this is also changed to 8000 but could make the file smaller
These are the settings I used before Procoder and looked good
The resulting mpeg file will then have to be placed into a DVD authoring program to make the DVD
I don't think Canopus HQ in FINE makes much difference but it gives me a nice warm feeling
Hope this helps
Regards Barry

[Bluetongue]

Pera
I am sorry I missed something here, I think I have found your problem are you using the print to DVD function in the export selection.
I just found it was available, must be getting old and blind, amazing how this forum helps in the discovery process.
Tried it and not as good as outputing an mpeg and then authoring
Barry

[Nick T]

Anybody tried recording the HD timeline to tape, then downconverting in camera and recapturing to SD timeline and then encoding?

[kungperra]

Thanks very much for the instructions Barry!

I will try and see what the diff will be when exporting it to a mpeg.. or m2v or m2p file I guess? cause i only have 3 options in Procoder Express to use, but this is if I understand it right just an mpeg file too.... the third option is the "VOB burn directly to DVD" as you are reffering too? I dont mean that I use the "new" print do DVD optin from the file menu in Edius, if that is what you meant... Im Sorry if i was unclear in the "Print Directly to DVD" statement, I AM using procoder, and i have just used the VOB option before...

But I will def. try this tonight again, and see where it takes me! Thank you very much again!

One more thing, you say you got "good" results from procoder express, but does procoder 3 give you an extra boost in quality when outputting to SD DVD? Or is it mostly used for its varius other settings and outputting options?

Thanks!
Perra

[kungperra]

Oh and one more thing, I have just given the canopus HQ capturing a couple of minutes tryout so far, but the AVI files that i get, does look like a progressive capture? or is it just my player that is messing with me? or does this method convert the footage to progressive....? sorry for a dumb question....

secondly, when converting via procoder (or any other tool i guess)... how do I know wich setting for top or bottom field order to use?

//Perra

[Bluetongue]

Oh and one more thing, I have just given the canopus HQ capturing a couple of minutes tryout so far, but the AVI files that i get, does look like a progressive capture? or is it just my player that is messing with me? or does this method convert the footage to progressive....? sorry for a dumb question....

secondly, when converting via procoder (or any other tool i guess)... how do I know wich setting for top or bottom field order to use?

//Perra

First Canopus HQ produces video with upper field first, Right click a clip and select properties and then the "Video Info" tab and field order should be "Top field first"

Second question regarding DVD "Top Field first" is the order of the day and should be selected by procoder express and is available in the "Advanced output settings" as described earlier
Also the info supplied earlier also applies to selecting the VOB option, and as to is the DVD from Procoder 3 better? Yes but the difference is minimal and most people would probably not notice, the big thing is to select "Highest Quality" and 2 pass VBR.
I use Procoder 3 because I can set it up to batch produce.
DVD Video file
AC3 Audio file as separate files ready for DVDLab Pro Authoring
HDV m2t file for HD projection all in the one swoop
Hope this helps
Regards Barry

[kungperra]

Thank you again, I will try this out tonight!

I'll use "top field" in everyplace i can find then! :)

Im really looking 4-ward to try this out as I really hope it will give me what i expected it to do! :)

Regards
Perra

[kungperra]

Ok i have done some testing, with capturing to Canopus HQ 1080i, changed project settings to SD and downconverted it it SD mp2 files -> VOB via an auth. program (adobe encore). On screen the results look pretty good i think (but i do loose quite a bit of clarity, changing the project to SD, but i guess that is supposed to happen as im going from HD to SD), im not 100% happy with the playback on the TV yet, i need to try some more combinations i think, i get a problem with the background picture, its not "stable" like the gravel and background trees is just not... hmmm its like a interlacingproblem with the playback almost... I dont know how to describe it. I will put some results on a homepage, as soon as i can, and maybe someone could give and opinion if its how its supposed to be or not....
Thank you all for your input so far!
//Perra

[Bluetongue]

Ok i have done some testing, with capturing to Canopus HQ 1080i, changed project settings to SD and downconverted it it SD mp2 files -> VOB via an auth. program (adobe encore). On screen the results look pretty good i think (but i do loose quite a bit of clarity, changing the project to SD, but i guess that is supposed to happen as im going from HD to SD), im not 100% happy with the playback on the TV yet, i need to try some more combinations i think, i get a problem with the background picture, its not "stable" like the gravel and background trees is just not... hmmm its like a interlacingproblem with the playback almost... I dont know how to describe it.
//Perra

No need to change the project settings to SD, convert it direct from the HDV timeline, and Yes the DVD will not look as sharp as it is now only a quarter of the pixels in the picture.
The Gravelly look is it like a shimmering effect on leaves or especially a picket fence or an item with close vertical lines taken from a distance will also shimmer seems to be a problem of the down convert to a smaller number of pixels. It also depends heavily on what you play it back on a widescreen LCD screen seems to be the best.
This problem is not evident when played back in HDV
Barry

[kungperra]

Barry, yep i THINK its a shimmer, im not sure if my translation is correct, but i think it could be described like a shimmering. In the movie Gladiator ( I think its in that movie) is a scene where the camera is panning over some buildings in rome with lots of stairs in the scene, and alot of DVD players having a hard time displaying this scene without problems with the stairs in the scene, its somewhat like that... I hope you understand what I mean. And I guess this is what you descibe is the problem with the downconvert to a smaller number of pixels... So maybe this is impossible to get rid of in this conversion process...

So that makes me wonder, IF im just going to output the movies to SD DVD, will it always be a better result shooting in 720x576i directly, so i dont have to deal with the downconversion....? When we bought the HDV camera, i thought that shoot in the best possible(what was affordable) and it would give me a DVD that was really good... but maybe i should start filming in 576i instead?!

I saw someone (maybe you) that said something about haveing problems with Encore as authering program, maybe that makes some of theese probs as well...

Thanks again!
Perra