down converting hd to sd

[jimstamos]

when i bring in hd footage and want to down convert it to sd, how long does this take. what are the steps

[GrassValley_BM]

Simple. Just choose project settings that reflect your desired output.

The conversion of HD content in an SD project should be realtime when using the "Print To Tape" option, as well as previewing timeline playback.

If you want to "Print To File" (convert an HD project to a single SD file), the render time will vary depending on the depth of your timeline edits and system speed.

[GrassValley_MD]

Jimbo...


The advice to edit in SD seems to be the best way to do it rather than edit in HD and then convert at the end. :)


Mike

[kungperra]

Hi

I have been reading lots of forums on how to downconvert the HDV footage, and I guess there isnt just one way that is the best to downconvert HDV to SD DVDs, but it seems to be one of the best ways to do ut with Edius Procoder. As I dont know if that IS the best way i thought I'd just ask you guys that has been in the business for some time, cause i just dont seem to find the final answer by myself...

Im helping one of my customers to find the best possible way of converting their footage from a HDV camera, and if anyone could help me out with the steps in doing this i would be very very grateful.

I have downloaded a trial of Edius v4.5 now and are making my tryouts with that product.

I have captured .m2t files (and that is the raw footage if I understand this correctly?) and They edited this on a HD timeline. Now as Mike says here it seems to be better to open up a SD timeline and work with the raw HDV .m2t files there instead? Will that produce a better end conversion? And why would that be? (Im just curios to know, i guess im just one of thoose persons that doesnt just satisfy with "do this and it will be fine" :) sorry :) )

After this i have used procoder express to convert it with the standard settings ( part from choosing 16:9 and upper field in the advanced settings)

This gives me a pretty good result, i am satisifed with it, but of course Id like a litte extra touch of quality if it is possible, cause i do loose the HDV footage quality (of course) when downconverting, and as i dont know enough about converting the already compressed HDV format to another comressed SD DVD format, i think that it should be possible to retain some more of the really good HDV footage... or Im I wrong....?

If you take a movie that is released on DVD you get a really good looking picture, and I cant reproduce that kind of quality from my HDV footage. The reason for this i guess is that the filmindustry isnt using the cam that I got, and they have another "base" material to convert from, maybe analog material from 32mm filmstrips... i dont know but I guess that is part of the reason?
But what i would like explained I guess is this, when I hook up my cam via HDMI to my TV looking at the "raw" HDV footage it looks amazingly good(better?! then any hollywood movie release, at least bloody **** good), and from this footage I had hoped to at least get close to a SD DVD from the movie industry, is that possible or is it just a fact that you cant convert HDV footage from a already compressed source as the HDV is?

Maybe i should output the files through something else but the Procoder Express that is in Edius, there is a Lossless export and then convert it with something else to the SD DVD format?

Sorry, this became a novell....

I hope someone can help me explain some of this....

Best Regards
Perra

[AJL14]

Perra,

(Here is a copy of a post I made a couple of weeks ago on the same subject. You might find it informative - as I have heard from many others who convert in the same way. Made a BIG difference!):

This might be old knowledge to many of you, but on this forum I've witnessed a great deal of discussion and dissatisfaction with various techniques to get an HD or HDV edit transfered to a great-quality SD DVD. I, myself, have tried each and every way I've seen suggested, and with the same mediocre results - especially from what was an HD quality shoot.

I just finished experimenting with a technique I have not seen posted on the forum (that dosn't mean many of you don't do it this way) that has resulted in a really great looking DVD - finally. I just wanted to share this with whomever might want a little visual joy in their life! I have a stack of terrible-looking DVD's that are going to get melted into a paperweight!

Since I'm transfering the HD edit back to HDV for archiving, I have ended up with an *.m2t file of the EDIUS edit. Sooooo.....I opened a new 1080 project, imported the *.m2t file, changed the project to a DV720x480 48Khz project, rendered the timeline, transfered the render to DVD VOB files and recorded a 2 hour DVD+R DL, and it looks terrific. Almost imperseptible jaggies, great resolution and clarity, and just a small amount of "line jitter" from the line conversion. Much better by far - for some reason - than when I just took the HD timeline and traveled the same road to SD.

To continue my experiment, I took the same procedure and altered the "layout" of the *.m2t file - stretching it to "full frame" height, then re-rendered - resulting in an anamorphic DVD which looks sensational on one of my wide-screen TV's which stretches a 3x4 picture horizontally to fill the 16x9screen, and on a laptop which can do the same.

As I said - if many of you have done it this way, forgive my imposition. But if you haven't, and you're one of the one's who is still dissatisfied - try it. You'll like it!

Best to all,
Alan

[Jonathan Porter]

I wonder if this method would work with a DVC PRO HD 720P timeline?

JP

[kungperra]

Grrrr! my entire post just dissapeared when i submitted....

Anyway , Hi Alan and thank you very much for replying!

I have a couple of question that i hope you can clarify for me, im very eager to try this out as it sounds like it will do some magic for me! :)
(Im a PAL user,maybe worth mentioning)

First of all i am supposed to edit it all in a 1080i timeline of my HDV footage.
Then im going to export this to a .m2t file(s) How is this done, am I going to use "print to file" option and procoder express using the HDV2 to produce that file or some other way?


Then open a new 1080i project and import the files there, and then change the project settings to a DV50i project. Can i instead of outputting the editied footage in step one, change that from the beginning maybe? That is, change it right after opening up the inital 1080i project and have dropped in my HDV m2t files? does this matter?

Then im supposed to render the timeline, how do I do this, do you mean i should "print to file" again to some format, maybe m2t file again? and then use some other tool for getting my VOB files? And what tool do you use in that case? Can the procoder express be used?

Ive read lots of hours on forums on how to make the best conversion, but this seams to be the easiesd way!

Maybe you have tried one of theese things I have read in comparison to what you have here:
Some talks about exporting the timeline to"Uncompressed 10-Bit 4:2:2" movie file and then go from there to VOB files, some people using Final Cut Pro that was...

And some talks about cineform is the way to do it....

Have you any experience of that, maybe you could add ...

Thank you very very much for helping out! Im really very grateful!

Best Regards
Perra

[Jerry]

Jimbo...


The advice to edit in SD seems to be the best way to do it rather than edit in HD and then convert at the end. :)


Mike

I am having a hard time on this one. If you are talking about just having realtime conversion, ok I agree. But, I do a full edit from a 1920x1080 timeline and use procoder 3 to create the downconvert with the filters added for color adjustments. I get a much better looking product from an HD master as opposed to an SD master.
I also create an uncompressed HD file of the final product and if need be do the encoding on another machine with Procoder 3.

Please explain to me how using SD to go to SD would be better than using HD to SD. My tests just do not support that.

[GrassValley_MD]

Nothing I have done Jerry, There was a time (Not to long ago) that this was the way most folks were recommending.

The best thing to do would be to have all of the ways listed and let the individuals decide which one looks best to them. :)


Mike

[Martin_Gleeson]

Since I'm transfering the HD edit back to HDV for archiving, I have ended up with an *.m2t file of the EDIUS edit. Sooooo.....I opened a new 1080 project, imported the *.m2t file, changed the project to a DV720x480 48Khz project, rendered the timeline, transfered the render to DVD VOB files and recorded a 2 hour DVD+R DL, and it looks terrific. Almost imperseptible jaggies, great resolution and clarity, and just a small amount of "line jitter" from the line conversion. Much better by far - for some reason - than when I just took the HD timeline and traveled the same road to SD.

Some points on this (just my opinions):

My nornal workflow is:

1. Capture from HDV camera as Canopus HQ 1440x1080 50i
2. Edit with HD timesline as above
3. Export HD timeline to Procoder 3 MPEG2 720x576 16:9

I get soft pictures with artifacts and some jaggies.


I would propose a similar workflow to yours expect:

1. Capture from HDV camera as Canopus HQ 1440x1080 50i
2. Edit with HD timesline as above
3. Change project settings to 720x576 D1 (16:9) and export to procoder 3 for MPEG2 encoding.

The main different would be that you use m2t files in step 3 above. The reason I would rather change the project with Canopus HQ files to SD, is that I find there is quality loss when you create the m2t file.

[Jerry]

Nothing I have done Jerry, There was a time (Not to long ago) that this was the way most folks were recommending.

The best thing to do would be to have all of the ways listed and let the individuals decide which one looks best to them. :)


Mike

I don't know if it is the fact that I am using 1920x1080 files on a 1920x1080
timeline outputting to an uncompressed file or encoding from the timeline improves the output. Reason would suggest that the higher the quality to start the better the final conversion would be.
Many of my files are uncompressed or MJPEG 1920x1080 files captured by HDMI.

I would prefer RT but with these file sizes and settings, it exists only in certain situations. I'm after the quality, if it takes a little longer, so be it.

The HD switch to SD method came about because Procoder 2 was not converting to SD from the HD timeline without creating artifacts and jaggies.

That has been fixed in PC3, at least I can't see them....and neither can my clients. That's what matters!

As you said Mike, let the individual decide which method is the best for them.
I have the horspower and I prefer a complete HD workflow.

[Imagine Video]

I am using the switch method and the work flow could not be easier (well if someone else did it for me it would be:-)

Capture HDV import and switch to sd 16:9 including sd output to sd monitor then encode to sd dvd - quality is amazing switch back check project then encode to hd dvd for later use................BLUERAY or HDDVD or whatever?

[kungperra]

Hi

I tried the switch method, but im not satisfied with the results, maybe im doing it the wrong way... using the procoder express maybe not be the best way of doing it...

What i do is to capture m2t files with HDVSPLIT, start a new projec in edius with 1080i HDV settings, bring the m2t files to the bin, drop it to the timeline, swithc the project to DV50i 16:9 (SD) and then "print to file" with procoder express... but it really feels i do loose to much detail from the original footage...

Is there any possiblity that anyone that is satisified with their results could post a comparing two pictures maybe, or even a short vob file...? It would be really interesting to see how big diffrence it is .. It would be nice to see what i should expect....

Maybe its the procoder express versus procoder 2 & 3 that makes the diffrence?

Thanks
Perra

[Imagine Video]

Capture using HDVSPLIT???

I capture using the GV HQ codec does HDV SPLIT support this?

I think the key is the GV HQ files are amazing when you do the switch to SD

I encoded the SD DVD files under PC express for edius even though I have PC3

TRY IT

[hedleyw]

Just to muddy the waters...

I have just compared a PCE + storm hardware encoder conversion generated from an HD timeline to one where I imported the m2t file to a new PAL SD project and then encoded with the same settings - I can't see any difference. Perhaps I've missed something?

I like the idea of switching project settings to SD before encoding but that screws up any titles on the T1 track and any clips with where the layout tool has been used.