Audio channels messed up in h.264/mp4 export

[DerAlSem]

Hi everybody.

Have a very simple project sequence.

1V track - video

6A track - audio in 5.1

1A - L (mapped to Ch1 Mono)
2A - R (mapped to Ch2 Mono)
3A - C (mapped to Ch3 Mono)
4A - LFE (mapped to Ch4 Mono)
5A - Ls (mapped to Ch5 Mono)
6A - Rs (mapped to Ch6 Mono)

Now, export to h.264. Project set up - 6 channels.

After exporting i have mp4 file with following audio channel assignment:

Audio 
ID : 2 
Format : AAC 
Format/Info : Advanced Audio Codec 
Format profile : LC 
Codec ID : 40 
Duration : 1h 45mn 
Source duration : 1h 45mn 
Bit rate mode : Constant 
Bit rate : 256 Kbps 
Channel(s) : 6 channels 
[B]Channel positions : Front: L C R, Side: L R, LFE [/B]
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz 
Compression mode : Lossy 
Stream size : 194 MiB (20%) 
Source stream size : 194 MiB (20%) 
Language : English 
Encoded date : UTC 2015-11-07 09:07:56 
Tagged date : UTC 2015-11-07 09:07:56

What am i doing wrong?

Edius 7.50.228

[Jerry]

Edius will export HQ/HQX with the correct order. However, exporting an .mp4 will be wrong, as you have discovered.
The easiest workaround is to purchase TMPGE's Movie AVC plug in for Edius 7. A new version for Edius 8 is coming.
This is a plug in that can use QS as well as x264 for encoding. You can also get dual pass encodes.
It also exports 5.1 channels in the proper order.
If you own other TMPGE products, the price will be in the
$60 range.

[Jerry]

No, it doesn't come back into either Edius 7.5 or Edius 8.1 correctly.
Neither does an export from Premiere Pro CC 2015, which I absolutely know is correct. So, that is an Edius issue.

The output from the Plugin is correct when imported into Premiere Pro CC 2015 using either Edius 7.5 or Edius 8.1.

The native .mp4 with multi channel audio export does not work in Edius 7.5.
I'm trying to get confirmations as to whether this was fixed in Edius 8.1. I was able to export using 8.1 and the file imported correctly into both Edius 8.1 and Premiere Pro CC 2015. So, we shall see.

At this point with E 7.5, the plugin is the only option that can export a correctly aligned multi channel .mp4 for use in other products.

[Jerry]

I can say that it was reported and looks as if the native workflow has been fixed. I'm still waiting for confirmation. You can do the test yourself.


Upon further testing it looks as if the native is still not working correctly.
It will work within Edius, but not in Premiere. Look at the two screen shots:
Edius.pngpremiere.png

Notice the .mp4 in Edius matches the native and HQX. But, in Premiere the Edius .mp4 order is different.
In order to get a good export you will need AVC Movie Plugin. It will not import back into Edius properly. But, 9 out of 10 times, you are after the export more than being able to re-import.

I would say that it is half fixed.

[DerAlSem]

Jerry, thank you very much for detailed description.

Another question - have you tried exporting 24 fps from 23,97 project? I have unexpected results. Is it same problem here?

[antonsvideo]

Jerry, thank you very much for detailed description.

Another question - have you tried exporting 24 fps from 23,97 project? I have unexpected results. Is it same problem here?

export to 23.97 fps HQ Fine or HQX super fine

start a 24p project and load the 23.97 clip to the bin

change the frame rate of the clip in the bin to 24 and then drag to timeline

export and you have perfect 24p

[DerAlSem]

Not sure if it'll help. I have following workflow:

23,97 "source" video. Rerecorded audio in sync with this video. So-called 23,97 audio. I understand, that it's not applicable to audio, i just call it so. It's just a bit longer (5 seconds for 80 minutes).

Now, my project is 23,97. I do export of tiff in 24 fps (export parameter). Next i do export of 6-chan wav, again in 24 fps.

Next i open new 24 fps project, drag both tiff-sequence and wav to sequence - and they're out of sync. Seems to me, as Edius ignores 24 fps parameter in wav export.

Anyway, thank you very much for the advise, i'll try it and post here.

[Liverpool TV]

Not sure if it'll help. I have following workflow:

23,97 "source" video. Rerecorded audio in sync with this video. So-called 23,97 audio. I understand, that it's not applicable to audio, i just call it so. It's just a bit longer (5 seconds for 80 minutes).

Now, my project is 23,97. I do export of tiff in 24 fps (export parameter). Next i do export of 6-chan wav, again in 24 fps.

Next i open new 24 fps project, drag both tiff-sequence and wav to sequence - and they're out of sync. Seems to me, as Edius ignores 24 fps parameter in wav export.

Anyway, thank you very much for the advise, i'll try it and post here.

Edius isn't ignoring anything, you're going about it all wrong. Go back and read Anton's reply, this has all the info you need.

[DerAlSem]

Edius isn't ignoring anything, you're going about it all wrong. Go back and read Anton's reply, this has all the info you need.

I thought that way, that's why i asked "what am I doing wrong?", as i said - i appreciate the advise, i will follow it and return here with result.

Anyway, Edius is very far from perfect, according to Jerry's report.

[Liverpool TV]

I thought that way, that's why i asked "what am I doing wrong?", as i said - i appreciate the advise, i will follow it and return here with result.

Anyway, Edius is very far from perfect, according to Jerry's report.

Yes, you do ask about what you were doing wrong, which is cool. But Anton had already answered your question about reconfirming frame rates.

You were right when you suggested that frame speed had nothing to do with audio, at least in context to your second scenario. Again, this is why I suggested to go back to Anton's reply. Don't forget, I was commenting on your question about frame rates and not your original question regarding multi channel audio.

With respect to your original audio question. There are a number of ways to do what you are asking about. While Edius may have certain issues, as per Jerry's response. It can be done using a wider workflow and understanding some fundamentals of audio and video.

Remember, Ediius is as an NLE not a DAW, and like many other NLEs, advanced audio is something that is usually dealt with within the wider post workflow.

To say that Edius ignores things and is far from perfect, is a little harsh. It has been proven time and time again that most so called Edius issues are usually user error, or a lack of experience with Edius. I should know, I have done this myself many times.

Maybe tryout some trials of other NLEs and see what gives. You will probably find that while they are all basically the same, they do have their own ways of doing certain things.

No one NLE will ever do everything, or even do what they do in a way that suits everyone, that's just the nature of the beast. But on balance, and as many on this forum who use or have used other NLEs, will agree. Edius is the best NLE. That's pretty much fact, and not just because I'm a hardcore Edius Fanboy :)

Cheers,
Dave.

[DerAlSem]

I totaly agree with you, that despite of some weak sides of Edius - it is still the best NLE there. ;) Tried AVID/Adobe/Lightworks... Finally, paid for Edius. And thinking of paying for upgrade to 8... ^)

[Liverpool TV]

I totaly agree with you, that despite of some weak sides of Edius - it is still the best NLE there. ;) Tried AVID/Adobe/Lightworks... Finally, paid for Edius. And thinking of paying for upgrade to 8... ^)

Cool. 8 is awesome.

If you get time do a Google search on muxing and demuxing media files. You can strip many different codecs, audio and video, from many different containers, MP4 MOV AVI etc. And put them back together again in different containers etc.

There are a lot of standards, but you can get away with repackaging different audio and video native streams into different containers, even if the containers don't say they support specific combinations.

It can be a bit hit and miss, but a few tests will give you some ideas.

Cheers,
Dave.