Bluray Ripping software

[jeff8]

I am looking to shoot and edit in 23.98. I would like a solution for those folks who do not have a bluray player. Once I start editing in Edius in 23.98 I believe I am stuck with a progressive format. Unlike 29.97p you can change the video setting to 59.94i and have dvd or bluray. What is the best software out there that can rip a bluray and convert it to a dvd format? Could I place the rip file in a 59.94 timeline and export it as a dvd? Just curious before I start shooting this way with the C100 which only allows 23.98 progressive.

[Liverpool TV]

Make a SD output of your 23.976 HD file. Look for a DVD authoring app that will take 23.976 as a source. This will be the best way, as Edius will do a great down conversion, and the right DVD authoring app will flag the 23.976 for pulldown if it's necessary.

[Andreas_Gumm]

Pulldown can be flagged to MPEG2 elementary streams by a tiny software tool:

http://www.videohelp.com/software/DGPulldown

Works fine!

It also can apply a pulldown to 25p MPEG2 streams at NTSC resolution to match NTSC frame rates.

Andreas

[jeff8]

Another question I have regarding 23.98 timeline with 23.98 footage.
For the project setting do I leave the pulldown to native?

[Liverpool TV]

Pulldown can be flagged to MPEG2 elementary streams by a tiny software tool:

http://www.videohelp.com/software/DGPulldown

Works fine!

It also can apply a pulldown to 25p MPEG2 streams at NTSC resolution to match NTSC frame rates.

Andreas

That app sounds cool. But it's best to use an authoring app that does it, as most won't understand the file or use it.

[Liverpool TV]

Another question I have regarding 23.98 timeline with 23.98 footage.
For the project setting do I leave the pulldown to native?

Leave it as is.

[Andreas_Gumm]

That app sounds cool. But it's best to use an authoring app that does it, as most won't understand the file or use it.

Don't matter!
Every authoring tool will read the resulting file as NTSC 29.97i!
Edius too!

Andreas

[Liverpool TV]

Don't matter!
Every authoring tool will read the resulting file as NTSC 29.97i!
Edius too!

Andreas

That's interesting. But wouldn't Edius hard code it to 29.97i, as it doesn't do 23.976?

[Andreas_Gumm]

1

That's interesting. But wouldn't Edius hard code it to 29.97i, as it doesn't do 23.976?

Edius is not an authoring tool! ;)
But if you put the file on Edius timeline, all parameters will be respected.
At encoding step on export, sure, it will be encoded, not flagged.

Andreas

[Liverpool TV]

Edius is not an authoring tool! ;)
But if you put the file on Edius timeline, all parameters will be respected.
At encoding step on export, sure, it will be encoded, not flagged.

Andreas

That's right, so it's not a proper flagged system. The problem with this is that the subsequent DVD will not only be further transcoded, but it won't have progressive ability either. This would negate the benefit of authoring with a proper flagged pulldown.

This is why I said that app you mentioned won't be so good for most scenarios. A proper flagged DVD will play back in either 29.97i as a pulldown of the 23.976 source. Or it will, wherever possible, play out the 23.976 source.

[Andreas_Gumm]

DGPulldown does exactly what you want.
It flags the stream in a proper way without a transcode.
So you can use it in the authoring tool of your choice.

Andreas

[strange]

What is the best software out there that can rip a bluray and convert it to a dvd format?

If it is just a matter of ripping and converting to DVD then may be DVDFab is worth trying because they have been long in DVD ripping business and should know a thing or two about proper DVD structure. http://www.dvdfab.cn/blu-ray-to-dvd-converter.htm There is no mention on how they handle 23.98 however. If this is for a client initial verification on most popular software & hardware players is necessary.

some further ideas may be found at:

http://blu-ray-to-dvd-converter-software-review.toptenreviews.com

They give a pretty good idea about what is current and available, their ratings are pretty generic however and may not match your needs. Besides it is difficult to tell how closely the DVD output matches the DVD specification.

[Liverpool TV]

DGPulldown does exactly what you want.
It flags the stream in a proper way without a transcode.
So you can use it in the authoring tool of your choice.

Andreas

Sorry Andreas, and I'm not trying to call you out on the open forum, but you are incorrect. We've just proved that.

If the authoring app does not accept 23.976, just like Edius, then pre-flagged media is irrelevant. BTW Andreas it was you who said Edius and not me, that was a real poor choice for an example.

Jeff.

Not all authoring apps are equal. Edius has an authoring application as part of its make up, it's just not a very in depth one. This is also true of many authoring applications. This is why I suggested that you prepare your master 23.976 SD video version in Edius. You may also be able to prepare your elementary streams in Edius, I'm not too sure as some authoring apps may still want to transcode the MPEG2 file anyway. Or simply make an Edius 23.976 SD master file and feed that into a dedicated MPEG encoder.

Once you have the MPEG2 file at 23.976, you simply feed that into an authoring app that can use it properly that applies the pulldown during the authoring stage. This flag is usually inserted at this stage and not during the media creation stage, as per Andreas' suggestion.

The app that Andreas is suggesting, does look very useful and is a good call for certain scenarios. It's simply not the correct tool for doing a 'proper' DVD that takes full advantage of the full DVD specification.

This app also looks like it is designed to work on headers of only certain codecs. If that's the case then you couldn't use it on a master file, for instance HQ/X. This would mean that you would have to create a compatible encode for that app, for instance MPEG2, let the app alter the header info, feed it back into an Edius 29.97i project and Edius will interpret it as 29.97i, then burn to disc from Edius.

There are two problems with this. One, you are transcoding twice, which really should be avoided. Two, you are applying an unnecessary pull down that will effect the temporal characteristics of the picture quality.

This is all assuming that Edius does not do 23.976 authoring form the timeline. Maybe this is something that 8 can do, I don't have 8 so can't help you there.

There is also the possibility that there is an authoring app that will see, understand and utilise a pre-flagged pulldown, as per Andreas' suggested tool. Maybe Andreas could suggest something? There are a number of mux/demux/remux tools out there that may work to creat a simple video only (no menus) DVD, from the output of Andreas' suggestion.

[Andreas_Gumm]

Sorry Andreas, and I'm not trying to call you out on the open forum, but you are incorrect. We've just proved that.

It seems you didn't proove that right!
I use that since years to bring time relevant features from 25p to NTSC frame rate.
I just describe what the tiny tool does, it simply sets the flag, no transcoding!

E.g. Scenarist & Spruce deals fine with the files.
Both are reference in this case. I don't care about what others do.
Maybe DVD Architect otr Encore would re-encode, but this is not the tools fault.
I just mentioned Edius because it deals fine with the file in timeline, nothing else. It sees it at 29.97 fps after flagging.
This was not related to the DVD output tool.

A preflagged file will be recognized as 29,97 fps based file.
This is the usual case.

Use it or don't use it, its equal to me at the end.
But please don't proclaim that the tools doesn't do what's intended for.
It does very well!

Andreas

[Liverpool TV]

It seems you didn't proove that right!
I use that since years to bring time relevant features from 25p to NTSC frame rate.
I just describe what the tiny tool does, it simply sets the flag, no transcoding!

E.g. Scenarist & Spruce deals fine with the files.
Both are reference in this case. I don't care about what others do.
Maybe DVD Architect otr Encore would re-encode, but this is not the tools fault.
I just mentioned Edius because it deals fine with the file in timeline, nothing else. It sees it at 29.97 fps after flagging.
This was not related to the DVD output tool.

A preflagged file will be recognized as 29,97 fps based file.
This is the usual case.

Use it or don't use it, its equal to me at the end.
But please don't proclaim that the tools doesn't do what's intended for.
It does very well!

Andreas

Andreas. You're turning this into something it needn't be.

You're correct I didn't prove it right, you did that yourself. You proved yourself wrong by using Edius as the example in the first place. You can't now disassociate your original statement about Edius because it's wrong, this post is about DVD and not editing.

I've actually been quite cordial and generous with my acknowledgment toward you and your suggestion. So please do the same.

To say that you don't care about anything other than Scenarist or Spruce, really isn't the attitude to have, especially when dealing with low level authoring. It doesn't help anyone in this thread at all. My last copy of scenarist cost £4000.00, this is hardly a solution for most Edius users.

Maybe give Jeff some realistic options for the authoring. Maybe TsRemux or something similar may do a straight burn from the flagged output?

As for you and I, the simple facts are these.

Your suggestion is a real cool one for certain scenarios, but will not cover the wider issue of proper DVD authoring.

Everything that I've said is perfectly technically correct.

If you want a more in depth conversation, then PM me or let's take it to the lounge and let's both leave this post alone.

There's now well enough information here for Jeff to run with.

Cheers,
Dave.