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NTSC mpeg2 es preset GOP error

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  • NTSC mpeg2 es preset GOP error

    Hi, I just wanted to bug report a small error in Edius 8.

    I had a project that I wanted to make MPEG2 Elementary Stream files for DVD authoring. When I used the MPEG2 ES preset with default settings, it created strange random decoding problems (severe smearing and what looked like the worst macroblock decode errors I have ever seen) in Encore and on the DVD, (much worse in encore though) I then had a closer look at the default settings for the export preset and noticed the GOP size was at 15, which is the PAL standard, while NTSC should be 18. I changed the setting to 18 and re-exported, and my decode problems were gone.

    I never checked through the other NTSC mpeg2 presets, so if you have to use them, take the time to check the settings
    Edius WG 9.55.7761, various 3rd party plugins, VisTitle 2.9.5.6, Win 7 Ultimate SP1, i7-4790K @ 4GHz with HD4600 GPU embedded, MSI Z97 Gaming 7 Motherboard, 32GB Kingston HyperX RAM, nVidia GTX680 4GB GPU, Matrox MX02 Mini MAX, Corsair 750W PSU, Corsair H110i GT Water Cooler, Corsair C70 case, 8TB Internal RAID 0/stripe (2x4TB Seagate SATAIII HDD's, Win7 Software stripe), 1TB Crucial MX500 SSD, Pioneer BDR-207D, Dual 1920x1080 monitors (one on GTX680 and one on Intel HD4600).

  • #2
    What were the rest of the settings?
    Jerry
    Six Gill DV
    www.sgdvtutorials.com
    If you own the Tutorials and you need help, PM me.

    Vistitle YouTube Channel
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMVlxC8Am4qFbkXJRoPAnMQ/videos

    Windows 10 Pro up to v.1803 Tweaks for Edius Users
    http://sgdvtutorials.com/WIN%2010%20...%20V.2.0.0.pdf


    Main System:: Azrock Z97 Extreme 6, [email protected], 32gb ram, NZXT Z63, Win10 Pro 64, Samsung 850 pro, E7.5/8.5/E9 on separate SSD drives, 2TB Sabrent M.2 NVME, BM MINI MONITOR 4K, 12tb RAID 0 on backplane ,2 BD, Dual LG 27GK65S-B 144Hz monitors, GTX 1080ti SC Black.
    Second System: EditHD Ultimax-i7, X58, [email protected], Corsair H80, Win764, 24gb ram, Storm 3g, Samsung 840 Pro 256, 4tb and 6tb RAID 0 on backplane, GTX 980ti Classified, Edius 9, Apple 30", Samsung 24", dual BD.

    Comment


    • #3
      First, the source was a 59.94i GVHQ HD render and add to timeline (Shift-Q). The content was mostly talking heads at a podium, so it isn't even like the kind of macroblocking you see from fast motion with too low a bitrate. (ie. betacam-sx shooting a sporting event)

      As I mentioned, the glitches on the DVD were much less pronounced than in Encore, but they were still there.

      The rest of the settings were:

      Segement Encode = off
      Size = Current Setting (720x480 picked up from the advanced section in the video format defaults)
      Quality = Fine
      Bitrate = VBR (used VBR because video was a little over 2 hours long)
      Average 4.3Mbps
      Maximum 7Mbps
      Audio = AC3, 2 Channel, 192K
      Upper Field dominant (matching source footage)
      Chroma = 4:2:0
      Profile = [email protected]
      GOP = IBBP
      Closed GOP

      I have been making DVD's since the mid 90's, when a burner cost around $1000, and have always had the best compatibility with NTSC burned discs using a max bitrate of around 7Mbps, IBBP GOP structure and a GOP length of 18 for 29.97i SD / 59.94 HD source material. Other framerates, from my experience, tend to work better with a GOP of 15 (ie. 25fps, 24fps, 23.98fps)

      I know DVD players have come a long way since then, but not every player is created equally, so in my experience, the 20 year old defaults still seem to work best.
      Edius WG 9.55.7761, various 3rd party plugins, VisTitle 2.9.5.6, Win 7 Ultimate SP1, i7-4790K @ 4GHz with HD4600 GPU embedded, MSI Z97 Gaming 7 Motherboard, 32GB Kingston HyperX RAM, nVidia GTX680 4GB GPU, Matrox MX02 Mini MAX, Corsair 750W PSU, Corsair H110i GT Water Cooler, Corsair C70 case, 8TB Internal RAID 0/stripe (2x4TB Seagate SATAIII HDD's, Win7 Software stripe), 1TB Crucial MX500 SSD, Pioneer BDR-207D, Dual 1920x1080 monitors (one on GTX680 and one on Intel HD4600).

      Comment


      • #4
        If that's what works for you, the set it manually and move on. I never burn with the program that does my authoring.
        Jerry
        Six Gill DV
        www.sgdvtutorials.com
        If you own the Tutorials and you need help, PM me.

        Vistitle YouTube Channel
        https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMVlxC8Am4qFbkXJRoPAnMQ/videos

        Windows 10 Pro up to v.1803 Tweaks for Edius Users
        http://sgdvtutorials.com/WIN%2010%20...%20V.2.0.0.pdf


        Main System:: Azrock Z97 Extreme 6, [email protected], 32gb ram, NZXT Z63, Win10 Pro 64, Samsung 850 pro, E7.5/8.5/E9 on separate SSD drives, 2TB Sabrent M.2 NVME, BM MINI MONITOR 4K, 12tb RAID 0 on backplane ,2 BD, Dual LG 27GK65S-B 144Hz monitors, GTX 1080ti SC Black.
        Second System: EditHD Ultimax-i7, X58, [email protected], Corsair H80, Win764, 24gb ram, Storm 3g, Samsung 840 Pro 256, 4tb and 6tb RAID 0 on backplane, GTX 980ti Classified, Edius 9, Apple 30", Samsung 24", dual BD.

        Comment


        • #5
          I think the problem is trying to get 2 hours onto a DVD!
          I have never been able to get a video without artifacting using below 6mb Ave from Edius.
          Your specs show 4.3mb average with 7 mb peak, the peak rarely makes much difference when using such a low bit rate, if it uses the peak it has to give it away somewhere else to achieve the average
          You need a really good 2 pass encoder to be able to do that, not sure even if Video Master works can achieve that, but worth a try, there is a free trial so may be worth looking at

          Best of luck
          Barry
          Win 10HP, EDIUS WG9.4, HD Spark, Boris RED 5, VMW6, Authorworks 6, Bluff Titler, VisTitler 2.8, NEAT 3/4, Mercalli 2/4, Vitascene, Izotope RX6 Plugin, NewBlue, Trend Micro AV
          GB GA-X58A-UD3R MB, i7 [email protected], 12G 1600mhz Mem, Samsung EVO-250G SSD, 3x2T RAID, GTX 970W OC, 2x24 inch LG Monitors
          Canon XH-A1/ Canon HF-G30, GoPro Hero3 Black, Edit @1920 50p HQ preset

          https://vimeo.com/user2157719/videos
          Laptop ASUS G752VT-GC060T Win 10HP, Edius WG8.53 Samsung M2 SSD 256G+1Tb HD,

          Comment


          • #6
            I have done that length on DVD many times, but it is getting close to the limit. I agree, a good 2 pass encode is better, but when it is mostly talking heads, a one pass, like the one in Edius is sufficient. Using the bitrates I mentioned gets me about a 92% fill on the disc.

            The 7Mb max is strictly set for compatibility when using a burned disc. DVD spec allows for 9.8Mb max, but burned discs have a lower reflectivity, and for some reason, capping the max at around 7Mb seems to help with the players. Once again, this goes way back to the mid 90's when I started making DVD's, and was under advice from Adobe and Matrox, when I used to work at a pro video dealer as a system builder and trainer.

            When making from a 23.98 or 24 source, I usually let Encore do a 2 pass encode, and set the M frames to 12, so the stream gets encoded as 23.98, but gets flagged to get the player to do the pulldown.

            In the instance where I noticed this problem, I had to get discs out fast, so I set Edius to do the encode since it was very little motion, and the 1 pass encode would be sufficient.
            Edius WG 9.55.7761, various 3rd party plugins, VisTitle 2.9.5.6, Win 7 Ultimate SP1, i7-4790K @ 4GHz with HD4600 GPU embedded, MSI Z97 Gaming 7 Motherboard, 32GB Kingston HyperX RAM, nVidia GTX680 4GB GPU, Matrox MX02 Mini MAX, Corsair 750W PSU, Corsair H110i GT Water Cooler, Corsair C70 case, 8TB Internal RAID 0/stripe (2x4TB Seagate SATAIII HDD's, Win7 Software stripe), 1TB Crucial MX500 SSD, Pioneer BDR-207D, Dual 1920x1080 monitors (one on GTX680 and one on Intel HD4600).

            Comment


            • #7
              I regularly put approximately 2 hours on a DVD as most stage shows are about this time frame plus or minus 15 mins. I shoot HD, edit HD then export a HQX fine file. Then I use TMPGenc to do a 2 pass VBR encode for DVD preset so that the disc fill is just over 4G ( easily seen on the TMPGenc indicator ). Make elementary streams and author in DVD Architect ( Encore will work too of course ). Burn with Nero most of the time. For the motion on a stage show this works out just fine. Frame rate is 60i timeline even though 3 out of the 4 cameras I use shoot 60P.

              Ron Evans
              Ron Evans

              Threadripper 1920 stock clock 3.7, Gigabyte Designare X399 MB, 32G G.Skill 3200CL14, 500G M.2 NVME OS, 500G EVO 850 temp. 1T EVO 850 render, 6T Source, 2 x 1T NVME, MSI 1080Ti 11G , EVGA 850 G2, LG BLuray Burner, BM IP4K, WIN10 Pro, Shuttle Pro2

              ASUS PB328 monitor, BenQ BL2711U 4K preview monitor, EDIUS X, 9.5 WG, Vegas 18, Resolve Studio 18


              Cameras: GH5S, GH6, FDR-AX100, FDR-AX53, DJI OSMO Pocket, Atomos Ninja V x 2

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              • #8
                2 hours on DVD5 is not a big issue as long as a proper & efficient MPEG2-encoder is used
                to do good 2-pass encoding. Cinemacraft is probably the best you can get, but there are
                other encoders at more affordable price tag which can do MPEG2-encoding much better
                than EDIUS limited internal 1-pass encoder can do. E.g. ProCoder, TMPEG encoder & a lot
                other tools can do even better. Forget the internal Edius encoder if you can't encode at
                highest bitrate!

                Andreas
                Andreas Gumm
                post production / authoring
                PC 1Intel Core i7-970 (6 x 3.20 GHz),
                ASUS P6T Deluxe V2, 12 GB RAM, Geforce 9800GT
                Windows 7 Ultimate,
                GV software: EDIUS 7.42, VisTitle v2.5,
                GV hardware: 3G Storm
                software SONY DoStudio Indie + EX 4.0.11
                PC 2
                Intel Core i7-3770, GIGABYTE Z77X-UD5H F14, 16GB RAM,
                Geforce 650 GTX, 5x HDD, Windows 7,
                GV software: EDIUS 7.42, ProCoder 3.0
                GV hardware: HD SPARK
                software: Telestream Switch, DTS-HD MAS, Dolby Media Meter

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