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Using EDIUS 4.5 and new pc config for capture of HDV

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  • #16
    Thanks guys for the info!

    Hi tingsern.................

    move the video data from SCSI RAID 0 to the SATA when I am done with the preliminary edits.
    So what raid controller are you using? for this setup the SATA one?


    Jerry thats a thumbs up then for the ASUS onboard contoller!! I have been warned agains using a software raid.......

    So many different opinions is never a good thing it only serves to confuse!
    Asus P5K64WS, Intel Core 2 Quad QX6850 Extreme CPU, Saphire HD 3850 512mb graphics, WDraptor160 OS, Highpoint Rocket raid 2310 4 x 500gig Seagate sata 2 se drives in raid 0, NXe and Edius 5.51 Imaginate 2.
    Procoder 3.06 and various Prodad add-ons

    Comment


    • #17
      I use Supermicro motherboard - the BIOS supports a rudimentary RAID 0 - using the SATA controller on the motherboard. To me - the SATA hard-drives are not the workhorse ... I use them to store the huge AVI files (in Canopus HQ format) after editing. It is the SCSI drives that are pushed really hard ... I use ADAPTEC SCSI RAID controller.

      I am not sure if someone already mentioned it - SCSI throughput is not affected by the disks filling up with data ... something that SATA drives is prone to. For normal data - SCSI drives are overkill. BUT for video editing - where files are measured in the Gigabytes ... it makes a world of difference between a successful capture or edit and one that gets interrupted once in a while - leading to the dread error message "Target drive too slow".

      I think Glass Valley BH mentioned it once - I have years of "hard earned experience" working in this line - computer h/w & s/w - so I know exactly what should be the ideal configuration for a given task. Cost can always be earned back - but, if you get the config wrong for a given task, then your clients or you will get frustrated when their work can't be completed in time. My present h/w is not cheap - but it gets thumbs up for its trouble free operations. I can throw anything that EDIUS can do (and far more) and I know it will work.
      Last edited by tingsern; 01-22-2008, 10:14 AM.
      TingSern
      --------------------------------------
      Edius 9.4 Pro, Lenovo P72 workstation laptop, 64GB RAM, Xeon CPU, Windows 10 Pro (64 bits), 2 x 2TB Samsung M2.NVME and 1 x 4TB Samsung SSD internal. Panasonic UX180 camera, Blackmagic 4K Pocket Cinema, Blackmagic Pocket Cinema

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      • #18
        tingsern thanks I understand so to edit HDV HQ I need scussi setup to not have the dredded disk to slow and system problems many have...

        The quality difference in HQ as apposed to standard HDV is worth the expense and having done a few small projects on a single sata 2 drive I can tell the difference.

        And they said Scussi will be dead with sata 2?? it would seem not! I was also confused as to the need for the sata 2 array but I see I will need storage also!

        Could you have a look at this card and give me your opinion on its suitability for editing with Edius? Please.


        http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/Produ...roductID=19216

        This is the store I will buy from as they are a leading supplier in the uk!

        Thanks
        Asus P5K64WS, Intel Core 2 Quad QX6850 Extreme CPU, Saphire HD 3850 512mb graphics, WDraptor160 OS, Highpoint Rocket raid 2310 4 x 500gig Seagate sata 2 se drives in raid 0, NXe and Edius 5.51 Imaginate 2.
        Procoder 3.06 and various Prodad add-ons

        Comment


        • #19
          Sorry I am back on to SATA 2 RAIDS NOW

          Can someone have a look at this rid card for me!!

          http://www.span.com/catalog/product_...oducts_id=8110


          This seems to have the data performance I would need but its pci-x which I assume is PCI EXPRESS slot

          That would mean I am a pci express slot down on my mobo for NX install later one in the year................

          ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ????????????????
          Asus P5K64WS, Intel Core 2 Quad QX6850 Extreme CPU, Saphire HD 3850 512mb graphics, WDraptor160 OS, Highpoint Rocket raid 2310 4 x 500gig Seagate sata 2 se drives in raid 0, NXe and Edius 5.51 Imaginate 2.
          Procoder 3.06 and various Prodad add-ons

          Comment


          • #20
            Hi Cath,

            You are terribly confused - it would seem. Are you in a desperate hurry to build an editing system? I hope not ....

            a) That 3Ware card is not (I repeat NOT) a PCI-Express card. It is a PCI-X 64 bits card. PCI-Express is normally abbreviated as PCI-E.

            b) There is plenty of bandwidth available on a PCI-X 64 bits bus - you don't need to worry about the bus getting congested. In fact, on my Supermicro motherboard, the Adaptec RAID SCSI controller is a 64 bits PCI-X bus as well.

            c) Are you thinking of RAID 0, or RAID 5 then? RAID 0 is sheer speed only. No redundancy - if one disk dies, you loose everything ... RAID 5 performance is not so good as RAID 0, but it buys you security (you "waste" one disk space for the parity).

            d) Even with RAID 5, you still must backup your programs and data. RAID 5 only protects against one Hard-disk failure. It won't protect you if the OS or you were to accidentally delete one file :-). Or you get two hard-disks die on you - really bad luck then.

            ****************
            Are you planning to capture HDV as MPEG-2 or capture it as Canopus HQ (Intermediate codec)? HDV native (MPEG-2) is about 25 mbits/sec ... (bits, not Bytes) ... whereas Canopus HQ is much larger than that - depending on whether your HDV is 1080 or 720 .... On my system, to capture to Canopus HQ (Fine quality) from a Sony HDV camera in 1080i (1440 x 1080/50i) - takes 3GB for about 3 minutes of video. In other words, 1 minute = 1GB. So, plan accordingly.
            Last edited by tingsern; 01-22-2008, 03:51 PM.
            TingSern
            --------------------------------------
            Edius 9.4 Pro, Lenovo P72 workstation laptop, 64GB RAM, Xeon CPU, Windows 10 Pro (64 bits), 2 x 2TB Samsung M2.NVME and 1 x 4TB Samsung SSD internal. Panasonic UX180 camera, Blackmagic 4K Pocket Cinema, Blackmagic Pocket Cinema

            Comment


            • #21
              tingsern

              I shoot with Sony Z1 and FX1 SO I shoot 1440 x 1080i HDV

              I have been capturing SD but widescreen through a Sony hdr15 HDV deck

              to standard ata 133 drives but I have now been using sata2.

              I now want to capture to Canopus HQ for the quality of the picture is far better when encoded to SD DVD widescreen.

              a typical job is about 4 or 8 tapes if its 2 camera shoot so I want to be able to capture the footage to CNOPUS HQ and then edit and output a SD DVD and encode a HD version of the project file to archive for future build to blueray!

              My system specs are


              ASUS P5K MOBO
              2 GIG PC8500 DDR2 1066 MEM
              1 160 GIG SYSTEM DRIVE
              1 INTEL CORE 2 DUO 3GHZ 6850 CHIP
              4 X 500 GIG SATA 2 DRIVES
              1 500 GIG SATA 2 STORAGE DRIVE for music graphics ect
              1 Pioneer dvd rw 115 drive

              So I need to reconfigure the way I capture for CANOPUS HQ

              And I am getting in a knot or two to say the least!!

              I dont know what I need either scussi array and what to run it with available slots on my mobo

              as i can see it i only have 2 pci slots spare if I am to put a GV EDIUS NX CARD in later this year!

              SO.....................any ideas to satisfy all bases??

              Thankyou in advance

              Cathryn
              Asus P5K64WS, Intel Core 2 Quad QX6850 Extreme CPU, Saphire HD 3850 512mb graphics, WDraptor160 OS, Highpoint Rocket raid 2310 4 x 500gig Seagate sata 2 se drives in raid 0, NXe and Edius 5.51 Imaginate 2.
              Procoder 3.06 and various Prodad add-ons

              Comment


              • #22
                Cath,

                Let's talk about the space available first ... let's use the worst possible case - 8 tapes of 63 minutes each.

                8 * 63 = 444 minutes = 444GB ... (using my calculations here of Canopus HQ capture at 1440 x 1080 - which is what you are using).

                How is your present workflow? Do you handle one project to its completion before starting another one, or do you do more than one project simultaneously? Because at 444GB per capture, obviously, you don't want to redo that (8 tapes = 8 hours) if some other project requires that space in your hard-disks.

                I have never seen the need for such huge files before ... most of my projects are only at most 1 hour long - and I film in 720p (not 1080). SATA2 disks can meet the space requirements ... but, if you are doing two projects simultaneously, it will be a whooping big 888GB data.

                At that size, SATA throughput will slow down. There is no free lunch here. SCSI won't exhibit that problem - but, it will cost you plenty (the biggest SCSI drive is only 300GB). And the price is something like 4 - 5 X that of one 750GB SATA disk.

                How much degradation will SATA show under that huge file load? I have no real experience - since my files don't get that big. Largest so far is a 13GB AVI file in Canopus HQ (720p) - about 20 minutes documentary.

                One question for you - do you have a choice to film in 720p or must it be 1080i? Because I found - through intensive testing with all my clients - that at normal viewing distance to a HD TV, 720p or 1080i makes little difference. It is super sharp to all of them. But, to a video editor, 720p and 1080i means handling nearly 4X times the amount of data. So, if you don't have the budget to handle 1080i (in Canopus HQ) - consider filming it in 720p ...

                How many slots (and what kind) do you have on your motherboard - and how many are free right now?
                TingSern
                --------------------------------------
                Edius 9.4 Pro, Lenovo P72 workstation laptop, 64GB RAM, Xeon CPU, Windows 10 Pro (64 bits), 2 x 2TB Samsung M2.NVME and 1 x 4TB Samsung SSD internal. Panasonic UX180 camera, Blackmagic 4K Pocket Cinema, Blackmagic Pocket Cinema

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                • #23
                  While Ting is giving you some very good information, let me add that I don't think you necessarily need SCSI. It wuold be cheaper to swap out your 500G drives for 1T drives than to switch to SCSI. New egg has them for around $270 each.

                  I think your bottle neck will end up being your single processor.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Q - How many slots (and what kind) do you have on your motherboard - and how many are free right now?

                    tingsern I Have this board:

                    http://www.asus.com/products.aspx?l1...37&modelmenu=2


                    And the hope is I have enough slots to fit an NX card later this year as funds allow.

                    pjsssss the single processor? I have a core 2 duo 3ghz is that not enough??

                    Cathryn
                    Asus P5K64WS, Intel Core 2 Quad QX6850 Extreme CPU, Saphire HD 3850 512mb graphics, WDraptor160 OS, Highpoint Rocket raid 2310 4 x 500gig Seagate sata 2 se drives in raid 0, NXe and Edius 5.51 Imaginate 2.
                    Procoder 3.06 and various Prodad add-ons

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      I think that processor is fine.(core 2 duo has 2 cores)

                      Do you have the latest chipset drivers installed?
                      Steve
                      EDIUS Trainer, Grass Cutter Gold
                      A proud EDIUS EDITOR
                      For more information on the Grass Cutter program please visit: http://www.grass-cutters.net

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                      • #26
                        Keep in mind too that "Enterprise-class SATA" is essentially SATA built over SCSI technology drives (hence the smaller capacities and correlation between sizes) but to get maximum use and speed, the controller needs to support the drive's extended features.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Cath,

                          I am terribly sorry to report that your present motherboard CANNOT handle any PCI-X cards.

                          You have only PCIe and PCI slots - but the PCI slots are 32 bits version. You need a 64 bits PCI (PCI-X) to plug in your RAID card.

                          See the extract from the ASUSTek website link you passed me ....

                          2 x PCIe x16 (blue @ x16 mode, black @ x4 or x1 mode) supports CrossFire Technology
                          1 x PCIe x1
                          3 x PCI

                          Whether the processor has enough firepower to handle EDIUS Realtime editing - well, it depends on what you are doing. For Canopus HQ - at 1440 x 1080 - I think you have to try it and see if the processor is a bottleneck then. Have you checked out my suggestion of using 720p instead of 1080i - to lessen your I/O load on the processor?

                          ***************

                          Brandon,

                          I forgot to mention that my 3 SATA harddisks are indeed Enterprise version. Not the normal version.

                          *************
                          PJSSSSS,

                          Please bear in mind that Cath is NOT in the USA - she is in UK. Telling her NEW EGG store has them for US$270 won't do her any good :-))).
                          Last edited by tingsern; 01-23-2008, 03:27 AM.
                          TingSern
                          --------------------------------------
                          Edius 9.4 Pro, Lenovo P72 workstation laptop, 64GB RAM, Xeon CPU, Windows 10 Pro (64 bits), 2 x 2TB Samsung M2.NVME and 1 x 4TB Samsung SSD internal. Panasonic UX180 camera, Blackmagic 4K Pocket Cinema, Blackmagic Pocket Cinema

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                          • #28
                            I am getting a handle on this now........

                            8 tapes would be a very worst case most 2 camera wedding shoots are 5 to 6 tapes although I have had 8 tapes on a longer very traditional catholic wedding full on mass type wedding.....so it does happen, but very few and far between

                            The systems you guys have are overkill for the work I do I have more time to do less work IYSWIM.........

                            I do not have an unlimited budjet to play with, some of the main board and duel chip setups in your signatures would cost circa 1600 uk pounds alone befor any case video card and drives are even thought of.

                            Yes I do want to edit 1080i BUT I may have to re-look at this as suggested.


                            Now I have an older system I am running on to finish some work off from last year and its specs are lowley......

                            P4 3.8 last of the p4's
                            2 gig ram ddr2 533
                            sata 2 200 gig video drive singular in caddy

                            Capturing through EDIUS in HQ is a breeze NO PROBLEM!


                            Now 2 hrs of HDV 1440 x 1080i HQ on the drive

                            single stream plays back fine processor usage is around 80% nominal

                            2 streams plays back just with processor usage at 99 - 100% the buffer empties in about 1 1/2 minutes

                            However put any effects pip or any other type of ANYTHING other than streight video stream and you need to render! after render seems no problem

                            I do not get disk to slow error and it captures fine HQ on the fly.............

                            This pc is better with HQ than with streight hdv mpeg files as the processor seems to be less taxed with HQ.......................


                            Cath - Thanks for all the replies and advise!
                            Asus P5K64WS, Intel Core 2 Quad QX6850 Extreme CPU, Saphire HD 3850 512mb graphics, WDraptor160 OS, Highpoint Rocket raid 2310 4 x 500gig Seagate sata 2 se drives in raid 0, NXe and Edius 5.51 Imaginate 2.
                            Procoder 3.06 and various Prodad add-ons

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Cath,

                              That's what I can do for you - to make you aware of all the possibilities and problems that you could face - before you cough out the money. You have a fair idea of how much processor power you need to edit Canopus HQ at 1080i - look at your older system ... CPU running at 100% for 2 streams. Take the Ghz rating and extrapolate it to your present needs.

                              HDV is MPEG2 compression (13 frames squeezed into one physical frame) - for PAL ... One frame is 0.5 seconds. 2 HDV frames = 25 frames (approximately) for PAL. The processor will have to work extra hard to extract the 13 frames from one physical frame - that's why you have problems.

                              Canopus HQ on the other hand is 25 physical frames per second. That's why HQ is so much larger than HDV. However, the CPU does not have to extract the "in-between" frames - so, it is less demanding on CPU.

                              Video editing systems are a tradeoff between time and cost. The faster your machine is - the more things you can do (or the more free time you have after you have done your editing). So - you have to decide whether the money is worth the time saved.

                              I understand that everything in UK costs 17% more than other countries - it is your VAT. That's something you have to factor in as part of your cost that you have to pass on to your customers or consider as part of the business cost.
                              TingSern
                              --------------------------------------
                              Edius 9.4 Pro, Lenovo P72 workstation laptop, 64GB RAM, Xeon CPU, Windows 10 Pro (64 bits), 2 x 2TB Samsung M2.NVME and 1 x 4TB Samsung SSD internal. Panasonic UX180 camera, Blackmagic 4K Pocket Cinema, Blackmagic Pocket Cinema

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                After this thread and other advise I thought I may go down the Canopus turnkey route so I have had a look at the turnkey solutions at the uk distibuter

                                http://www.holdan.co.uk/hp/ednxts1.htm


                                This is the turnkey solution for all I need!

                                As you can see the spec on the machine is far less than the one I am suggesting so I am confused.
                                Asus P5K64WS, Intel Core 2 Quad QX6850 Extreme CPU, Saphire HD 3850 512mb graphics, WDraptor160 OS, Highpoint Rocket raid 2310 4 x 500gig Seagate sata 2 se drives in raid 0, NXe and Edius 5.51 Imaginate 2.
                                Procoder 3.06 and various Prodad add-ons

                                Comment

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