moire/aliasing from xavc-s to h264-blu ray

[egarenc]

after exporting a XAVC-S file from the time line to H264/blu ray the result is uggly. there is a significant moire or aliasing in the picture. this trouble does not exist with final cut pro.
I never saw this trouble doing the same task with edius 7.2 and HDV files.

camera FDR AX100E
project setting : 1920x1080 25p
editing software EDIUS 7.2
display : panasonic blu ray / panasonic plasma 50"

did somebody see the same trouble ? is it a setting issue?

[Andreas_Gumm]

Are you really in a 25p project?
If you exported to blu-ray, it must have been an interlaced project!
So maybe you ran into degraded picture quality because resizing was applied to a progressive source inside of an interlaced project?
Not sure how this will be processed inside of EDIUS!

Can you test the following?
Just set the project to progressive, take care that the field dominance of your source footage is recognized as "progressive"!
Then export a small portion of the critical scene to file.
How good does result look?
The best test at the end is print the new file to BD-disc!
How does it look?

Edius "print to disc" capabilities are sadly limited & must match target settings (don't ask me why, it's just annoying)!

If you need more guidance, could you upload a small sample anywhere?
So others could cross check your finding & could better assist.
Also give us some screenshots of the footage.

Andreas

[egarenc]

thank's Andreas for your advises.

I set 25p, but as edius does not export 25p to blu ray files, I set 50i => uggly result .

the trouble is:

edius does not export 25p to blu ray

If I export to a H264/mp4 25p file , the result is acceptable ( a few aliasing remaining on the tiles)

but when I burn a blu ray through NERO the result is similar to a 50i setting ( I guess NERO reencode in 50i).

I guess it is a lack of optimistaion for 4K editing . I am waiting for the next release.

I apologize for the french comments inside the copy screens, but numbers are international.

Claude

[Andreas_Gumm]

Could you please upload a short test clip at its full native resolution encoded to HQ or HQX?
The house is a great scenario for further testings, so 1 or 2 seconds would be really great.
ZIP it & load it to a google drive or a free file hoster.
It would be a pleasure for me to find out what's going wrong.

Just a small tip if you want to change the GUI to the english version (not really needed for now)
rename the 'locate' folder!

best regards
Andreas

[Adbear]

Just so you know 1920x1080 25P is not part of the Blu-ray specifications so it will always need to be converted if you want to put it on a Blu-ray disc

[CentralEurope]

edius does not export 25p to blu ray

simple ...neither Edius nor any other application can make a 25p Blu-ray
why ?? ... 25p is not a "Blu-Ray Specification"

for Blu-ray you need a 24p project

set Resampling to Lanczos_3
the best way for to scale the Ultra-HD 3840x2160 down to HD 1920x1080 with max. quality
.

[Andreas_Gumm]

Other NLEs simply export from 25p timeline to 25i blu-ray! There is no magic behind a realtime interlacing on export to disc!
As far as I know EDIUS is the only NLE that is capable to export blu-rays & the same time it can't deal an export of a progressive timeline to the desired media!
It is a very common process to export 25p to 25i even for TV!
Ridiculous!

Andreas

[antonsvideo]

Other NLEs simply export from 25p timeline to 25i blu-ray! There is no magic behind a realtime interlacing on export to disc!
As far as I know EDIUS is the only NLE that is capable to export blu-rays & the same time it can't deal an export of a progressive timeline to the desired media!
It is a very common process to export 25p to 25i even for TV!
Ridiculous!

Andreas

the ideal future EDIUS will be able to export to PAL or NTSC Blu-ray/DVD from any frame rate timeline

also, changing frame rate from 50p or 60p to any other frame rate such as 50i 60i would be very welcome

[Andreas_Gumm]

the ideal future EDIUS will be able to export to PAL or NTSC Blu-ray/DVD from any frame rate timeline

also, changing frame rate from 50p or 60p to any other frame rate such as 50i 60i would be very welcome

I agree!
Also if a project could hold sequences of different frame rates & resolutions it could also help to put out a proper blu-ray
or DVD from a progressive timeline by nesting the sequence in an interlaced sequence. ;)

Andreas

[GrassValley_PS]

Other NLEs simply export from 25p timeline to 25i blu-ray! There is no magic behind a realtime interlacing on export to disc!
As far as I know EDIUS is the only NLE that is capable to export blu-rays & the same time it can't deal an export of a progressive timeline to the desired media!
It is a very common process to export 25p to 25i even for TV!
Ridiculous!

Andreas

How about easing up on the exclamation points? Beside caps, it also can be construed as "shouting".

[Liverpool TV]

I agree!
Also if a project could hold sequences of different frame rates & resolutions it could also help to put out a proper blu-ray
or DVD from a progressive timeline by nesting the sequence in an interlaced sequence. ;)

Andreas

Although these things sound like great ideas, I doubt they will ever be implemented. There are some real impractical issues to consider, especially when changing picture structure let alone the combination of frame size and frame speed. I don't think I have seen any other NLE that does these things, especially change a PAL project live to NTSC.

At least when doing any of this to one single master file, by importing it into a new project for some form of cross conversion, it is only one file. I couldn't possibly imagine how you would treat the many different types of individual assets in an edit, to do what would seem be the simplest of these jobs. Even what may seem like a simple thing that we can do now, change frame size, can have very strange effects on things like layouter and filters and react differently to different assets. I think the phrase, a whole world of mess, would apply.

[Andreas_Gumm]

How about easing up on the exclamation points? Beside caps, it also can be construed as "shouting".

Sorry,
I'm sadly tend to use it inflationary & I agree it's not adequate to transport my words as meant.
It has usually no special meaning. Maybe I set the '!' more in an automatic way to show the huge personal importance of the topic.

I will have more attention to my postings in future.

Andreas

[Andreas_Gumm]

I don't think I have seen any other NLE that does these things, especially change a PAL project live to NTSC.

Adobe Premiere can hold different types of sequences in one single project.
Not sure about FCP 7, but I have in mind that this was possible. That needs to be confirmed. ;)

Changing the frame rates of projects/sequences to unrelated frame rates is not possible.
We would get rounding errors on re-calulating events on timeline.

Related frame rates can be re-calculated without rounding errors (e.g. 25 <-> 50, 29.976 <-> 59.94).

Andreas

[Ron Evans]

Other NLEs simply export from 25p timeline to 25i blu-ray! There is no magic behind a realtime interlacing on export to disc!
As far as I know EDIUS is the only NLE that is capable to export blu-rays & the same time it can't deal an export of a progressive timeline to the desired media!
It is a very common process to export 25p to 25i even for TV!
Ridiculous!

Andreas

Edius isn't the only NLE to export to Bluray. All but the lowest cost version of Vegas will export to Bluray or DVD from the timeline with markers converted to chapter points but NO menu. If menu's are needed then one goes via DVDArchitect also included with them. As is the case with ADOBE CS6 with send to Encore. Vegas will also happily move between progressive and interlace video project settings, frame rate changes as well as PAL and NTSC. I have no expectation that one product will do everything that is why I have all three of them !!!

XAVC-S is very critical on the scaling used. With clips from my AX1 I can almost at will create artifacts or not depending on what I use to scale and how it is viewed. Understandable when ones considers the image is being scaled to 1/16 of its size to go to DVD or 1/4 to Bluray. If the scale to 1920x1080 has problems they will be propagated when scaled to SD DVD sizes. You can see this by changing the size of the preview monitor window which will introduce the moire and sparkling artifacts that with simple scaling will remain on export !!

A crop to 1920x1080 using Lanczos3 is good with Edius or via a HQX export and encode with TMPGenc. I have used an AX1 XAVC-S file in a 1920x1080 60i project as one of the 4 cameras used in a mulitcam edit of a 2 hour show cropped ( with Layouter ) as needed but using Lanczos3 with a HQX export and then encode in TMPGenc 2 pass VBR for DVD. I was happy with the final image quality that was better than the CX700 which was also used as a full stage camera. The Bluray preset file export from the timeline using Quicksync was also good to my eyes.

Ron Evans

[Liverpool TV]

Adobe Premiere can hold different types of sequences in one single project.
Not sure about FCP 7, but I have in mind that this was possible. That needs to be confirmed. ;)

Changing the frame rates of projects/sequences to unrelated frame rates is not possible.
We would get rounding errors on re-calulating events on timeline.

Related frame rates can be re-calculated without rounding errors (e.g. 25 <-> 50, 29.976 <-> 59.94).

Andreas

Never knew Prem could do both PAL and NTSC sequences in one project, but then again I would never have needed or looked for this option.

Is it possible to import a progressive sequence from a saved project into an open interlaced project?