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  • #16
    Hey gdame,

    Mr sparkle says that it should be fine on a standard HP workstation.
    "You can get 1, maybe 2 streams of sustained playback...and with effects."

    - I hope so.

    I guess native AVC Intra 50 which has slightly higher file sizes than DV, and is only at 50Mbit is very possible to edit with external HDD's? I don't see any reason why I might need to bring in the big boxes for that. Why do you say that?

    I need to clear up a point. I know Edius is 8bit through and through. We all want 10bit processing, especially if we have a 10bit acquisition codec like AVC intra. At the moment we don't have this with Edius I believe.

    So this means that there will be NO FX for the Edius workflow unless you want to throw away the extra bit depth and go down to 8bit processing of FX.

    Am I right to assume:
    • 10 bit AVC Intra is converted from native colorspace to 4:2:2 uncompressed 8bit UYVY by CPU power and then passed to GV hardware for viewing.
    • Rescaling, positioning, FX etc are all processing at 8 bits as usual and there are no 10bit processes hardware or software supported.
    • I have the possibility to encode a timeline as a 10bit AVC Intra stream from the original source material ????????


    ----------------------------

    The last point is the most important.
    Last edited by xeberdee; 11-19-2007, 02:50 PM.
    ¤ž€ß¤

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    • #17
      There is currently no method of encoding AVC-Intra from the EDIUS timeline - only DVCPRO HD.

      I believe you are correct on the first assumption, and definitely correct on the second.

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      • #18
        Very interesting thread here.
        Mule Ferguson

        HPX2000
        HVX200
        Edius Broadcast
        EDIUS v5.51 Broadcast - Dual Xeon Supermicro X7DWA-N with E5450 3.0GHz CPU (8 cores)
        4 GB Ram, 1.0 TB Video Raid (2x500). 5 ea 1.0 TB External Video. 2 500 gb Ext, 320 GB OS Drive .. ATI Radeon HD 4350 with 512 Ram XP Pro with SP 3 HD Sparks, VisTitle

        Edius 6.52Dual Xeon Asus P5E3 9650 3.0 4G Ram
        Nvidia9800, 500G Raid (2x250) 1TB&500TB Ext Drives

        HPX 2000 AVC Intra, HVX 200, HPX 170, AG-AF 100, Canon D5 MKll.....MacBook G4 w/VMWare FCP Edius 6.2

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        • #19
          Hi Kennealy,

          Thanks for clearing that up, it's what I expected to hear.
          IMHO Edius really needs to process at 10 bits for export, as AVC gets integrated into other NLE's.

          Any plans being made for making a 10bit node?

          Even a transcode from native Intra to something, anything in 10bits.
          Still images DPX, Cineon, Tiff, TGA, JPEG2000, QTime codecs, Blackmagic, etc. would be a MEGA plus.

          I'm interested in what's going on in Edius with native AVC Intra.

          Does the whole native clip (on import) get transcoded to uncompressed, and then the Edius timeline is working with 8bit uncompressed proxy? If so then that's not really native, is it?.

          Or is Edius constantly generating new uncompressed streams to hardware as the timeline data changes? For monitoring etc. That way at least there is a timeline that is accessing native AVC. Which would probably make the introduction of a 10bit encoder likely in the not too distant.

          Anybody know what happens?
          ¤ž€ß¤

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          • #20
            Unless you force it to render, EDIUS always does a...
            1. Decode from source clip
            2. Adjust color space, color sampling, frame rate, frame size to project settings (note that both rate and size adjustments are non-destructive and can be adjusted using Layout and/or Duration/Speed controls on the timeline)
            3. Perform any filters/effects on clip
            4. Display on screen (and out hardware if available)
            So it's strictly a decode process. Yes, there can be color sampling and space conversion, but that's it.

            The "native" color space and sampling is YCbCr 4:2:2 for most operations, though I'm told certain operations use larger color sampling in the processing for higher precision of the end-result.

            As for general 10-bit processing, it's been brought up and is in the feature request list.

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            • #21
              Thanks BH.

              ("the AVC-Intra plug-in lets you natively decode the AVC-Intra...")

              I'm trying to work out the advatages of a 10bit/8bit workflow over an 8bit/8bit workflow mostly with regards picture quality for post. I realise it should look better for all kinds of reasons, but it all depends on how I treat it in Edius and how Edius handles the conversion.
              The conversion from AVC>YUYV to export should look better than the conversion from anything else to export like you say.

              At the moment it's a bit expensive to buy an AVC cam and the plugin to test, and the advantages sound minor.

              Can I export an EDL from a P2 project that natively decodes from the AVC?
              Maybe some 10 bit platforms will start to support the codec native and I can conform from the P2 structure.

              That would work.
              Last edited by xeberdee; 11-20-2007, 10:17 AM.
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              • #22
                Yes, you can export EDL from any EDIUS project. Of course you'll have to test the resulting EDL for compatibility in your intended target system, but at least it's text so it's not too difficult to "massage" if necessary.

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                • #23
                  At the moment it's a bit expensive to buy an AVC cam and the plugin to test, and the advantages sound minor.

                  I have been holding off on upgrading my HPX2000 and purchasing the Plugin untill something comes out.
                  Mule
                  EDIUS v5.51 Broadcast - Dual Xeon Supermicro X7DWA-N with E5450 3.0GHz CPU (8 cores)
                  4 GB Ram, 1.0 TB Video Raid (2x500). 5 ea 1.0 TB External Video. 2 500 gb Ext, 320 GB OS Drive .. ATI Radeon HD 4350 with 512 Ram XP Pro with SP 3 HD Sparks, VisTitle

                  Edius 6.52Dual Xeon Asus P5E3 9650 3.0 4G Ram
                  Nvidia9800, 500G Raid (2x250) 1TB&500TB Ext Drives

                  HPX 2000 AVC Intra, HVX 200, HPX 170, AG-AF 100, Canon D5 MKll.....MacBook G4 w/VMWare FCP Edius 6.2

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by muleferg View Post
                    At the moment it's a bit expensive to buy an AVC cam and the plugin to test, and the advantages sound minor.

                    I have been holding off on upgrading my HPX2000 and purchasing the Plugin untill something comes out.
                    Mule
                    Hey Mule,

                    I wouldn't wait to update your 2000. AVC Intra does give you 10bit 4:2:2 1920x1080 so it's well worth the money. Problem is what you gonna do with it.

                    At the moment, like we've established, you're gonna lose the 10 bit colorspace in Edius, but you will be able to do what you've always done with the 8 bit codec, FX etc. Plus you have a better quality picture going into the conversion.

                    I suppose you got to juggle the pro's and cons and wait like everybody for a 10bit codec.
                    ¤ž€ß¤

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                    • #25
                      I seems we're getting into feature requests here.
                      Last edited by xeberdee; 11-28-2007, 10:40 AM.
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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by xeberdee View Post
                        I wouldn't wait to update your 2000. AVC Intra does give you 10bit 4:2:2 1920x1080 so it's well worth the money. Problem is what you gonna do with it.
                        Thanks Xeberdee. Now I need to call Santa.

                        HeHaw
                        Mule
                        EDIUS v5.51 Broadcast - Dual Xeon Supermicro X7DWA-N with E5450 3.0GHz CPU (8 cores)
                        4 GB Ram, 1.0 TB Video Raid (2x500). 5 ea 1.0 TB External Video. 2 500 gb Ext, 320 GB OS Drive .. ATI Radeon HD 4350 with 512 Ram XP Pro with SP 3 HD Sparks, VisTitle

                        Edius 6.52Dual Xeon Asus P5E3 9650 3.0 4G Ram
                        Nvidia9800, 500G Raid (2x250) 1TB&500TB Ext Drives

                        HPX 2000 AVC Intra, HVX 200, HPX 170, AG-AF 100, Canon D5 MKll.....MacBook G4 w/VMWare FCP Edius 6.2

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by xeberdee View Post
                          I suppose you got to juggle the pro's and cons and wait like everybody for a 10bit codec.

                          That has been a frequent request from many of us on the board. 10bit codec and HDSDI editing cards, oh yeah, and at a price in line with the competition.
                          Jerry
                          Six Gill DV
                          www.sgdvtutorials.com
                          If you own the Tutorials and you need help, PM me.

                          Vistitle YouTube Channel
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                          Windows 10 Pro up to v.1803 Tweaks for Edius Users
                          http://sgdvtutorials.com/WIN%2010%20...%20V.2.0.0.pdf


                          Main System:: Azrock Z97 Extreme 6, [email protected], 32gb ram, NZXT Z63, Win10 Pro 64, Samsung 850 pro, E7.5/8.5/E9 on separate SSD drives, 2TB Sabrent M.2 NVME, BM MINI MONITOR 4K, 12tb RAID 0 on backplane ,2 BD, Dual LG 27GK65S-B 144Hz monitors, GTX 1080ti SC Black.
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                          • #28
                            AAF Export as a help...

                            I might be missing something,
                            and After Effects might not be the favorite tool for post,
                            but you could use the effort of 10-bit progressing that way:

                            Import the P2 AVC-intra into Edius, edit, export an AAF from Edius and open it in AE.

                            This wount work right now (maybe yes, as AE version 8.02 just added native P2 processing..but i doubt that they can process the AVC-intra-codec yet..), but having native P2 included in AE, it shouldnt be too difficult to add it in an upcoming AE update...Adobe should definitly know about those needs...!

                            I totally agree that Edius needs 10-bit support, no question, better sooner than later...it would be great to hear from GV that its not just "on the wish-list" but really being planned to include it into something like the Version 5.0 release....the only thing i hear from my colleagues is "use FCP", but i do love the speed and native P2 support of Edius, i dont wanna loose that...!

                            But if GV doesnt change to 10-bit support, a lot of people will change to other applications, as we have the footage coming up with cams like the HPX 3000...!

                            We are considering to use the HPX 3000 for a shoot right now, but the missing 10-bit in Edius and the extra costs of Intra-upgrade will give me a hard time to convince the production...Help here GV...!
                            Edius 6.52
                            Windows 7-64bit
                            8GB RAM
                            Intel Core I5, [email protected],40GHz

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                            • #29
                              Edius BC 4.6 has AVC Intra-100 option in list, but files from HPX 3000 won't open.. Hmmm..
                              Supermicro 2x Quad-core 5450 3GHz, intel 5000X, 12GB RAM, 12TB, Edius 6.5 HDSpark, Win8, 3x24" Samsungs, E-Mu 1616, Nvidia FX3700
                              Sony Z1 & F-350, Canon 1D X, Panasonic HPX 3000 + Amphibico housing- Inspiration Vision Trimix.

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                              • #30
                                Can you put a (short clip) file up somewhere for me to download?


                                Steve
                                Steve
                                EDIUS Trainer, Grass Cutter Gold
                                A proud EDIUS EDITOR
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