Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

HD timeline to SD DVD - pretty bad

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    Originally posted by Jonathan Porter View Post
    Editing in HDV and viewing the Hi Def footage during the edit via the NX card is always going to leave you feeling a little disappointed when you view the resultant SD DVD, especially if you are trying to cram a lot of footage onto a single layer DVD.

    I'm looking forward to when the Hi Def DVD wars are over and everything is running smoothly both for editing, authoring and delivery.

    JP
    What war?, there are no HD DVD burner, but plenty of Blu-ray burners, so as far as I'm concern, Blu-ray is the way, the light, and the future if you want to deliver hidef on optical disc(-:
    Another reason is since encoding for HD using AVC or VC-1 takes 4ever, we should take advantage of the high bandwith, high capacity of Blu-ray and use MPEG2 with 40mb/s encoding then it will be faster to encoding and don't have to worry about quality.
    I7-6900K, X99 Taichi, Geforce GTX 1070, Corsair RM850X, Corsair H100 IV2, Windows 10, Edius WG 9.30

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Martin_Gleeson View Post
      I'm kind of gutted here - and hoping I'm doing something wrong. I have just created my first SD DVD from a HD timeline. The footage was captured as HQ PAL 1440 x 1080i from two Canon XH A1's.
      I then converted to MPEG2 SD from the Edius timeline using Procoder 3.0. My settings are attached.

      The quality on the finished DVD is quite poor. I compared it to one of my SD projects which was created from a Sony V2100 (4:3).

      The new 16:9 project (from the Canons) is not near as sharp and blurs much more detail. There are artifacts, "dot crawl" and so on. The 4:3 VX2100 project has much better color, is much sharper and clearer. The whole point of me getting the Canons is that I would have widescreen; and also have much higher quality source material, and thus lead to higher quality SD DVD's.

      Next thing I did as an experiment was to change the output settings in Edius from HD (where the project looks fantastic) to SD output. The quality drop is far more drastic than a normal switch from HD to SD. It really is unacceptable.

      Where am I going wrong? How could this (expensive) switch from SD to HD result in much poorer quality SD output.

      I'm just feeling sick and depressed about this (it's the last nail in what's been a terrible few months). Have I just wasted a lot of money here?


      [ATTACH]259[/ATTACH]

      Martin,
      I don't know if this will help your case but I have the same camera and when dropping to sd with Procoder 3 I get crystal clear images.
      That said, I am editing in a 1920x1080 setup and exporting to a 720x480 1.2
      mpeg2. Once I went HD, I stopped viewing SD output because it just looked soooooo bad. Do you have the ability, edius software mode, to edit the captured files from the Canon and perform a test to DVD using that method.
      If you do, try a short sample just to see the difference.

      Procoder 3 corrected the problems that 2 had in doing a straight output from HD to SD mpeg2 from the timeline.
      Jerry
      Six Gill DV
      www.sgdvtutorials.com
      If you own the Tutorials and you need help, PM me.

      Vistitle YouTube Channel
      https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMVlxC8Am4qFbkXJRoPAnMQ/videos

      Windows 10 Pro up to v.1803 Tweaks for Edius Users
      http://sgdvtutorials.com/WIN%2010%20...%20V.2.0.0.pdf


      Main System:: Azrock Z97 Extreme 6, [email protected], 32gb ram, NZXT Z63, Win10 Pro 64, Samsung 850 pro, E7.5/8.5/E9 on separate SSD drives, 2TB Sabrent M.2 NVME, BM MINI MONITOR 4K, 12tb RAID 0 on backplane ,2 BD, Dual LG 27GK65S-B 144Hz monitors, GTX 1080ti SC Black.
      Second System: EditHD Ultimax-i7, X58, [email protected], Corsair H80, Win764, 24gb ram, Storm 3g, Samsung 840 Pro 256, 4tb and 6tb RAID 0 on backplane, GTX 980ti Classified, Edius 9, Apple 30", Samsung 24", dual BD.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Martin_Gleeson View Post

        The quality on the finished DVD is quite poor. I compared it to one of my SD projects which was created from a Sony V2100 (4:3).

        The new 16:9 project (from the Canons) is not near as sharp and blurs much more detail. There are artifacts, "dot crawl" and so on. The 4:3 VX2100 project has much better color, is much sharper and clearer. The whole point of me getting the Canons is that I would have widescreen; and also have much higher quality source material, and thus lead to higher quality SD DVD's.


        [ATTACH]259[/ATTACH]
        Martin
        I downloaded your file and rendered it to SD DVD and made a DVD for playing through my player and display on the wall with a Sony HS60 projector to 2meters diagonal as per my own DVD,s and yes it does look rather soft, I could not detect any artifacts, but the lawn is definately not what I would expect.
        In properties the video bit rate seems low compared to my video's, your video registered 86270kb all my video's are between 150000 ans 200000kb, is your setting for the HQ encoder set to "FINE" . My settings are Q 4 Max size 40.
        Also the video in HD seems a little soft compared to mine from the XHA1, similar to what I am getting from the Sony FX1, also the colour on the HD file seems a little washed out compared to mine!
        Focus using the HDV cameras is unbeleavably important and I use manual focus nearly all the time done with the "Peaking on" and using the magnifier, a small shift in focus on an SD camera is un noticeable but in HD it is fatal.
        I also use manual White balance from a grey card, the colour on your video looks a little like using AUTO white balance? and to top it off I use the AV (Aperture priority) setting on all cameras and try to use F8 as much as possible for Max clarity
        Hope this helps
        Regards Barry
        Win 10HP, EDIUS WG9.4, HD Spark, Boris RED 5, VMW6, Authorworks 6, Bluff Titler, VisTitler 2.8, NEAT 3/4, Mercalli 2/4, Vitascene, Izotope RX6 Plugin, NewBlue, Trend Micro AV
        GB GA-X58A-UD3R MB, i7 [email protected], 12G 1600mhz Mem, Samsung EVO-250G SSD, 3x2T RAID, GTX 970W OC, 2x24 inch LG Monitors
        Canon XH-A1/ Canon HF-G30, GoPro Hero3 Black, Edit @1920 50p HQ preset

        https://vimeo.com/user2157719/videos
        Laptop ASUS G752VT-GC060T Win 10HP, Edius WG8.53 Samsung M2 SSD 256G+1Tb HD,

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Bluetongue View Post
          Martin
          I downloaded your file and rendered it to SD DVD and made a DVD for playing through my player and display on the wall with a Sony HS60 projector to 2meters diagonal as per my own DVD,s and yes it does look rather soft, I could not detect any artifacts, but the lawn is definately not what I would expect.
          In properties the video bit rate seems low compared to my video's, your video registered 86270kb all my video's are between 150000 ans 200000kb, is your setting for the HQ encoder set to "FINE" . My settings are Q 4 Max size 40.
          Also the video in HD seems a little soft compared to mine from the XHA1, similar to what I am getting from the Sony FX1, also the colour on the HD file seems a little washed out compared to mine!
          Focus using the HDV cameras is unbeleavably important and I use manual focus nearly all the time done with the "Peaking on" and using the magnifier, a small shift in focus on an SD camera is un noticeable but in HD it is fatal.
          I also use manual White balance from a grey card, the colour on your video looks a little like using AUTO white balance? and to top it off I use the AV (Aperture priority) setting on all cameras and try to use F8 as much as possible for Max clarity
          Hope this helps
          Regards Barry
          Actually because of lens diffraction, you don't want to go any higher than F5.6 with camera like the A1, it will get very soft, I found that around F4 with the A1 gives the sharpest picture.
          I7-6900K, X99 Taichi, Geforce GTX 1070, Corsair RM850X, Corsair H100 IV2, Windows 10, Edius WG 9.30

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Khoi Pham View Post
            Actually because of lens diffraction, you don't want to go any higher than F5.6 with camera like the A1, it will get very soft, I found that around F4 with the A1 gives the sharpest picture.
            Thanks for the tip Khoi, I new F8 from my days with still cameras gave a good compromise, I will keep this info in mind in future
            Regards Barry
            Win 10HP, EDIUS WG9.4, HD Spark, Boris RED 5, VMW6, Authorworks 6, Bluff Titler, VisTitler 2.8, NEAT 3/4, Mercalli 2/4, Vitascene, Izotope RX6 Plugin, NewBlue, Trend Micro AV
            GB GA-X58A-UD3R MB, i7 [email protected], 12G 1600mhz Mem, Samsung EVO-250G SSD, 3x2T RAID, GTX 970W OC, 2x24 inch LG Monitors
            Canon XH-A1/ Canon HF-G30, GoPro Hero3 Black, Edit @1920 50p HQ preset

            https://vimeo.com/user2157719/videos
            Laptop ASUS G752VT-GC060T Win 10HP, Edius WG8.53 Samsung M2 SSD 256G+1Tb HD,

            Comment


            • #21
              Hi Martin

              several things I noticed

              1. your HD footage does not look HD in a HDCAM 1440x1080 project, in fact it looks similar sharpness to my DSR-570 16:9

              2. opening your HD clip in a standard def project produces terrible artefacts from the downscaling, so this is no good at all

              3. I noticed that Tmpeg4 claims your file is progressive and not interlaced, but yet Edius claims it is interlaced, maybe this causes the artefacts?

              4. point 3 got me curious and I opened your file in GSpot and it also claims it is progressive, check the settings on your camera

              5. I encoded your file from HDV timeline using PC3, it looks reasonable
              http://www.videoproductions.com.au/martin-PC3.m2v (7mb)

              If I was you, I would be disappointed with your camera or HD
              Anton Strauss
              Antons Video Productions - Sydney

              EDIUS X WG with BM Mini Monitor 4k and BM Mini Recorder, Gigabyte X299 UD4 Pro, Intel Core i9 9960X 16 Core, 32 Threads @ 4.3Ghz, Corsair Water Cooling, Gigabyte RTX-2070 Super 3X 8GB Video Card, Samsung 860 Pro 512GB SSD for System, 8TB Samsung Raid0 SSD for Video, 2 Pioneer BDR-209 Blu-ray/DVD burners, Hotswap Bay for 3.5" Sata and 2.5" SSD, Phanteks Enthoo Pro XL Tower, Corsair 32GB DDR4 Ram, Win10 Pro

              Comment


              • #22
                Well I have just tried exporting HD video to SD using the DVD burner and the video looks fine but the audio is terrible, it keeps cutting out every few seconds. Edius plays the footage fine in the timeline so it shouldn't need to be rendered and I haven't rendered footage in the past. Also I don't have any AV software installed as the boot partition isn't even on the net.
                Software:
                Edius 8.5 Workgroup
                NewBlue FX
                Hitfilm Ignite
                Vitascene 2
                Newblue TitleMotion Pro
                Smartsound 5.8

                Desktop:
                MSI Z170A M5 Motherboard, i7 6700K 4Ghz, 32GB DDR4, NVIDIA 970 4Gb, 240GB Boot SDD, 500Gb Video SSD, Windows 10 Pro 64bit

                Laptop:
                MSI GS60, 4K UHD, Intel i7, 16Gb DDR3, Nvidia 970M 3Gb, Windows 10 64bit

                Cameras:
                Panasonic HC-VX870 4K
                GoPro Hero4 Black
                Panasonic GX8 (Stills & Video)
                Garmin Virb 360

                Comment


                • #23
                  I think Anton as usual is on it. I only use 60i with my Canon and the downconvert is very sharp (better than with the Z1). What were the camera settings when you shot it? Edius will do a number on footage that is not properly interpreted when it is handed off to any encoder.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Nev:
                    You state "Then I have the problem of being over 60yo. Hmmmm"
                    Don't worry about it. Time will resolve that problem for you.
                    Fred D
                    Win 7 Pro-64 bit, EDIUS Workgroup 8.5, Intel Ivy Bridge i5, ASUS P8Z77-V-LK, 8GB Kningston DDR3, Pioneer BDR-209UBK, EVGA NVIDEA GEForce GT630, Corsair TX750M 750w Power Supply, 4 WD Black HDD for 3.15TB, ACEDVIO, Spark HD, eSATA controller, ANTEC 300 case.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Thank you all, especially for going to all the trouble of downloading and converting the clip.

                      A number of things:

                      1. Auto-focus. Yep, guilty! I am used to using this for wedding shoots. I find that with manual focus, by the time I have the thing focused (a couple of seconds is the absolute fastest (sometimes longer) I can manually focus). By then, what ever I wanted to film is most likely almost over! Also, I find that cameras like the A1 don't have a great viewfinder for manual focus (even with "peaking"). So, for scenes like the one posted, where I'm wandering around getting shots, I use auto focus. In more controlled circumstances (such as ceremony, speeches, etc), I find I have the time for manual focus.

                      2. I think my mistake was capturing this footage as Canopus HQ Standard (instead of Fine). I presume this would have removed the "softness"?

                      3. The camera certainly needs some adjustment. It it set too bright. Khoi has very kindly sent me his settings, so I will experiment with those.

                      4. As for the progressive/interlaced issue Anton found: This is a mystery. The camera is set to capture in 50i (PAL land here). The Edius project is set to 1440x1080 50i. So I have no idea how the footage is being interpreted as progressive. I also put this into TMPG4, and yes, it though it was progressive too. I have no idea what to do about this issue.

                      One more question: What is the purpose of the filters in Procoder to convert colorspace to 601? It seems there are options to convert from HD color space to SD colorspace. Are these options recommended. BTW: I tried to use them last night, but Encore complained that the MPEG2 file produced was an Invalid MPEG file.

                      Once again, many thanks to you all
                      Martin
                      Windows 10 Pro. Gigabyte Z370 Aorus Ultra Gaming mainboard, Intel i7-8700K processor, 32GB DDR4 3200MHz RAM, Radeon R9 270 2GB DDR5 Graphics.
                      Samsung SSD Drives for system and mixture of SSD and 7200 SATA for video storage.

                      Edius 9.50. Blackmagic Intensity Pro 4k
                      Dublin, Ireland. PAL.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        open the file in Tmpeg4 and add a deinterlace filter, yes, it is grayed out because there are no fields

                        I have a feeling the camera head is set to progressive scan and the recorder output is set to interlace, in which case the output is actually progressive
                        Anton Strauss
                        Antons Video Productions - Sydney

                        EDIUS X WG with BM Mini Monitor 4k and BM Mini Recorder, Gigabyte X299 UD4 Pro, Intel Core i9 9960X 16 Core, 32 Threads @ 4.3Ghz, Corsair Water Cooling, Gigabyte RTX-2070 Super 3X 8GB Video Card, Samsung 860 Pro 512GB SSD for System, 8TB Samsung Raid0 SSD for Video, 2 Pioneer BDR-209 Blu-ray/DVD burners, Hotswap Bay for 3.5" Sata and 2.5" SSD, Phanteks Enthoo Pro XL Tower, Corsair 32GB DDR4 Ram, Win10 Pro

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by antonsvideo View Post
                          open the file in Tmpeg4 and add a deinterlace filter, yes, it is grayed out because there are no fields

                          I have a feeling the camera head is set to progressive scan and the recorder output is set to interlace, in which case the output is actually progressive
                          That clip shows top field first on my system, a little noisy and a little soft.
                          Martin, go into your camera vtr and into the menu/displaysetup/data code and choose camera data, playback that clip and hit date code on your remote, it will display the gain/f-stop and shutter speed for that scene, I bet that you probably have gain on when you don't have to and your f-stop is above 5.6, cuz it shouldn't be that noisy for an outdoor scene with plenty of light like that.
                          I7-6900K, X99 Taichi, Geforce GTX 1070, Corsair RM850X, Corsair H100 IV2, Windows 10, Edius WG 9.30

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Khoi Pham View Post
                            What war?, there are no HD DVD burner, but plenty of Blu-ray burners, so as far as I'm concern, Blu-ray is the way, the light, and the future if you want to deliver hidef on optical disc.
                            Ditto that thought here. Blu-ray is a fully developed HD delivery format with greater capacity and more players (including PS3s) in circulation, plus better overall backing from movie studios. It would be a blessing if HD-DVD just disappeared quietly into oblivion, but someone (probably Microsoft) appears to be bankrolling its survival long enough to make it a nuisance. I've seen enough to conclude that Blu-ray will mostly likely be the winner and went ahead and bought a Blu-ray burner with Adobe CS3 software. If someone want's HD-DVD, I'll cram a few minutes of footage on a standard red-laser disc and leave it at that.
                            Edius 6.5 on Lenovo W520 laptop: Intel Core i7-2720QM @2.2 GHz, Nvidia graphics card, 8GB RAM, Windows 7 Pro 64-bit. Canon Vixia HF-G10, three Sony HDV video cameras and one Canon 7D.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by antonsvideo View Post
                              open the file in Tmpeg4 and add a deinterlace filter, yes, it is grayed out because there are no fields

                              I have a feeling the camera head is set to progressive scan and the recorder output is set to interlace, in which case the output is actually progressive

                              Since Martin captured HDV 1440x1080 50i (M2T file format) to RT HQ 1080, would if the RT HQ converting caused some problem?

                              Martin, does the original HDV M2T look better than the HQ image, maybe you can check?

                              ...Angelo
                              Canopus/GV: DVStorm2 w/component-out board, ADVC300, Edius 4.61, ProCoder 3.05, Imaginate2
                              System: MSI B75A-G43 (v2.0), i7-3770K, 4GB, HD6850, Pyro1394 pci-e, 6 Disks 2.4TB non-raid, Win7-32bit, Dell 24" & 19" LCD

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by kwshaw1 View Post
                                Ditto that thought here. Blu-ray is a fully developed HD delivery format with greater capacity and more players (including PS3s) in circulation, plus better overall backing from movie studios. It would be a blessing if HD-DVD just disappeared quietly into oblivion, but someone (probably Microsoft) appears to be bankrolling its survival long enough to make it a nuisance. I've seen enough to conclude that Blu-ray will mostly likely be the winner and went ahead and bought a Blu-ray burner with Adobe CS3 software. If someone want's HD-DVD, I'll cram a few minutes of footage on a standard red-laser disc and leave it at that.
                                There is not doubt that BD has burners. HD will eventually have HD burners too. Currently you can burn about 40min of HD on a standard DL DVD+R disc which is very cheap. For us video editors BD is the best option, but the customer this is always right.

                                Stop the FUD and I can drum up the same for BD/Sony. Ideally, I would love to see all manufactures, studios to go neutral and let the public choose. But there are many other forums to discus these matters not here as the thread will get shut down.

                                ...Angelo
                                Last edited by Angelo; 10-11-2007, 08:36 PM.
                                Canopus/GV: DVStorm2 w/component-out board, ADVC300, Edius 4.61, ProCoder 3.05, Imaginate2
                                System: MSI B75A-G43 (v2.0), i7-3770K, 4GB, HD6850, Pyro1394 pci-e, 6 Disks 2.4TB non-raid, Win7-32bit, Dell 24" & 19" LCD

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X