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  • Subclip waveform display wonky?

    Hi all,

    I'm working my way though the manual, and right now trying to understand all the default controls in the Player window.

    I tried setting In/Out points and then "Add Subclip to Bin" (I also used "Add Clip on Player to Bin").

    1) As I zoom in/out with a subclip on the Timeline, the waveform shifts around -- is this a known issue?

    2) I don't really get the point of the subclip -- (as opposed to the trimmed normal clip) -- is it just that you can't extend the ends beyond the Margin you have set in Automatic Correction?

    Lastly, the manual doesn't really seem to explain what a subclip is -- is there some additional manual that includes details like that?

  • #2
    Subclips are self explanatory.


    As the manual says you register between in and out as a separate "sub-clip".
    The manual also says that the sub-clip references the original clip. This means that no other footage is created on disk as the sub just points to the original master clip.

    The sub-clips are tracked as separate clips in clip usage count for example. Handy when you have an edit list to track usage based on tc in a long clip.
    Steve

    Get Support or the Latest version of EDIUS:
    EDIUS support and Downloads

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    • #3
      Originally posted by GrassValley_SL View Post
      Subclips are self explanatory.

      As the manual says you register between in and out as a separate "sub-clip".
      The manual also says that the sub-clip references the original clip. This means that no other footage is created on disk as the sub just points to the original master clip.

      The sub-clips are tracked as separate clips in clip usage count for example. Handy when you have an edit list to track usage based on tc in a long clip.
      But if I select in and outs, and then click "Add Clip on Player to Bin" isn't that also a reference to the original clip, with no additional footage created on disk, also pointing to the same original master?

      Do you know what I mean about the waveform being misaligned in the subclip?

      Comment


      • #4
        Why don't you try something I have given you one example. Try using a sub-clip and a clip via your method. Then put the master clip after the 2 clips. Then look at timeline usage count.

        You don't have to comeback immediately with a question when someone tries to help or gives a suggestion. Try first.. :)


        They are not the same if you add to bin without sub-clip the clip is tracked a the Masterclip.

        If you add to bin with the sub-clip the clip is tracked as a separate clip.
        Think about it is as "new clip". It will have it own region with handles for example.
        This is very important in certain edit situations.

        Don't know what your issue is with waveform because when I put my cursor on a spot and zoom in and out it stays on the spot.
        Last edited by GrassValley_SL; 06-02-2013, 02:03 PM.
        Steve

        Get Support or the Latest version of EDIUS:
        EDIUS support and Downloads

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        • #5
          If I select in/outs, and then Add Subclip to the bin, and then drag that to the Timeline -- and then place the cursor somewhere in the middle and use the zoom slider, the waveform totally shifts around.

          I attached a screenshot -- to generate this, all I did was add a clip to the Player, set in/out points, and then clicked both Add Subclip and Add Clip -- then I dragged both into the Timeline. They both play the same audio and video, but the subclip timeline is wrong.

          As for my question: I'm sorry I seem daft. I'm just trying to understand when you would want to use subclip -- I searched through all of the user guide, and there isn't an definition I can seem to find. I also searched for "master clip" but that isn't defined either.

          You're suggesting that I should import my regular full clip into the Player, set in/outs, click both Add Clip and Add Subclip, drag both of those from the Bin onto the Timeline, reset the in/out points and drag the full clip onto the Timeline? I'm not sure what you mean by "timeline usage count" -- I also searched the manual for that term, but didn't come up with anything (I even tried just "count"). Is there some sort of Glossary that I'm missing?
          Attached Files

          Comment


          • #6
            Here is an in and out from the player window and an in and out subclip.
            Take notice that the waveform matches.
            player vs sublcip waveforms.png


            My main reason for using subclips is I like to use 1 large single file. Instead of throwing that large clip onto the timeline I load it into the player window and do a cursory edit. After all of those cursory clips have been added into the bin I can start my rough assembly of the project. At this point I begin to trim off what I don't need and get a second draft of the project. From there I add effects, filters, and audio corrections where needed.

            Answer these two simple questions:
            1. How much editing/NLE experience have you had?
            2. What NLE's have you used in the past?
            Jerry
            Six Gill DV
            www.sgdvtutorials.com
            If you own the Tutorials and you need help, PM me.

            Vistitle YouTube Channel
            https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMVlxC8Am4qFbkXJRoPAnMQ/videos

            Windows 10 Pro up to v.1803 Tweaks for Edius Users
            http://sgdvtutorials.com/WIN%2010%20...%20V.2.0.0.pdf


            Main System:: Azrock Z97 Extreme 6, [email protected], 32gb ram, NZXT Z63, Win10 Pro 64, Samsung 850 pro, E7.5/8.5/E9 on separate SSD drives, 2TB Sabrent M.2 NVME, BM MINI MONITOR 4K, 12tb RAID 0 on backplane ,2 BD, Dual LG 27GK65S-B 144Hz monitors, GTX 1080ti SC Black.
            Second System: EditHD Ultimax-i7, X58, [email protected], Corsair H80, Win764, 24gb ram, Storm 3g, Samsung 840 Pro 256, 4tb and 6tb RAID 0 on backplane, GTX 980ti Classified, Edius 9, Apple 30", Samsung 24", dual BD.

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            • #7
              I have also checked the waveforms on 3 machines now and the waveform matches each time.
              Steve

              Get Support or the Latest version of EDIUS:
              EDIUS support and Downloads

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              • #8
                Ah, so is it that taking a long clip and cutting it into subclips is more efficient (in terms of processor/memory) vs. having multiple copies of the same clip, with each copy trimmed to different points? If that's the idea, is there a specific metric I can check in the software to see the difference?

                As for the waveform, yours is right -- but it's consistently misaligned when I try.

                I spent a lot of time with Premiere 20 years ago (!) but only recently became interested in getting back into it again. For the past several years I've been interested in still photography, and I have some music performance projects I'd like to capture.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by GrassValley_SL View Post
                  I have also checked the waveforms on 3 machines now and the waveform matches each time.
                  What's the utility folks here use to capture desktop activity as a movie?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Microsoft expression screen encorder screencapture
                    Camtasia
                    BlueBerry Flashback Express recorder
                    Camstudio
                    and
                    Google :)
                    Last edited by GrassValley_SL; 06-02-2013, 05:29 PM.
                    Steve

                    Get Support or the Latest version of EDIUS:
                    EDIUS support and Downloads

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Here, I attached a quick sloppy video showing how the subclip waveform draws incorrectly.
                      Attached Files

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by turnstyle View Post
                        If I select in/outs, and then Add Subclip to the bin, and then drag that to the Timeline -- and then place the cursor somewhere in the middle and use the zoom slider, the waveform totally shifts around.

                        I attached a screenshot -- to generate this, all I did was add a clip to the Player, set in/out points, and then clicked both Add Subclip and Add Clip -- then I dragged both into the Timeline. They both play the same audio and video, but the subclip timeline is wrong.

                        As for my question: I'm sorry I seem daft. I'm just trying to understand when you would want to use subclip -- I searched through all of the user guide, and there isn't an definition I can seem to find. I also searched for "master clip" but that isn't defined either.

                        You're suggesting that I should import my regular full clip into the Player, set in/outs, click both Add Clip and Add Subclip, drag both of those from the Bin onto the Timeline, reset the in/out points and drag the full clip onto the Timeline? I'm not sure what you mean by "timeline usage count" -- I also searched the manual for that term, but didn't come up with anything (I even tried just "count"). Is there some sort of Glossary that I'm missing?
                        In the bin, turn on "Timeline Reference Count" (see the manual if you don't know how to do this) and then try putting subclips and clips in the bin and then add them to the timeline and see what happens. Using subclips has a distinct advantage if you need to keep track of your clip usage so, for example, you don't use the same clip more than once or if you want to know how many times you have used that clip.

                        Also, I see no difference in audio waveforms from original source file and subclip.
                        My System: Edius Workgroup 9.51 & 10.0, Intel I9-9900K 3.60GHz Liquid Cooling, MSI Z390-A PRO MB, 32-GB Mem, GeForce GTX 1660 6GB GPU, BM Intensity Pro 4K Card, Win 10 Pro

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Your video is different than your screen shot. The waveforms line up in the video and as you zoom they stretch out.
                          What are you wanting them to do?
                          Jerry
                          Six Gill DV
                          www.sgdvtutorials.com
                          If you own the Tutorials and you need help, PM me.

                          Vistitle YouTube Channel
                          https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMVlxC8Am4qFbkXJRoPAnMQ/videos

                          Windows 10 Pro up to v.1803 Tweaks for Edius Users
                          http://sgdvtutorials.com/WIN%2010%20...%20V.2.0.0.pdf


                          Main System:: Azrock Z97 Extreme 6, [email protected], 32gb ram, NZXT Z63, Win10 Pro 64, Samsung 850 pro, E7.5/8.5/E9 on separate SSD drives, 2TB Sabrent M.2 NVME, BM MINI MONITOR 4K, 12tb RAID 0 on backplane ,2 BD, Dual LG 27GK65S-B 144Hz monitors, GTX 1080ti SC Black.
                          Second System: EditHD Ultimax-i7, X58, [email protected], Corsair H80, Win764, 24gb ram, Storm 3g, Samsung 840 Pro 256, 4tb and 6tb RAID 0 on backplane, GTX 980ti Classified, Edius 9, Apple 30", Samsung 24", dual BD.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Actually, they don't. It does not look like the same audio is on both tracks. Are those two clips exactly in sync with each other. I cannot reproduce this if they are.
                            My System: Edius Workgroup 9.51 & 10.0, Intel I9-9900K 3.60GHz Liquid Cooling, MSI Z390-A PRO MB, 32-GB Mem, GeForce GTX 1660 6GB GPU, BM Intensity Pro 4K Card, Win 10 Pro

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by LewS View Post
                              Actually, they don't. It does not look like the same audio is on both tracks. Are those two clips exactly in sync with each other. I cannot reproduce this if they are.
                              Yes, here's what I did:

                              1) clip in player, set in/out

                              2) in the player, add clip to bin

                              3) in the player, add subclip to bin

                              4) drag both to timeline, one on top of the other

                              5) move the cursor into the clip, and zoom in/out

                              If you watch again, you can see that when zoomed in, they're displayed correctly aligned -- but when zoomed out, the subclip waveform is drawn incorrectly.

                              EDIT: it's most obvious at the end of the clip I posted.

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