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  • IBC Rumours - APPLE/AVID

    Hi y'all,

    Rumours of an AVID takeover by Apple circulated at IBC. What does this mean for Thomson Grass Valley and Canopus Edius?

    These days everybody wants everything for nothing. Some NLE's are closer to the goal than others. At the moment, what are the NLE's that can handle 10 bit files & hi res, and that have HD SDI for a reasonable price?. The only systems I know of at the moment are Apple Final Cut Pro with support for cards like Aja, Blackmagic and Bluefish, and the Avid Liquid Chrome Xe running on the Xena card from Aja. Of course there's Adrenaline if you have the money. The only alternative on PC, on the cheap, is Adobe Premiere Pro which also supports low price 3rd party cards.

    In a world where Avid is gone, or running on a Macintosh, that kinda limits your options on PC platform to Apple or Thomson.

    What can Grass Valley offer as competition for Macintosh platforms 10 bit codec support if Avid & Liquid is out of the picture?

    Can we expect to see a 10 bit codec, and a low price 'plugin' card from Canopus with HD SDI I/O?

    Can we expect to see a version of Edius with the same kinds of compositing tools, plugins and filters that the competition allready have for processing 10 bit and hi-res files?
    ¤ž€ß¤

  • #2
    Everybody was talking about Apple buying Avid.
    Avid wasn't even at IBC. Things must be really bad.

    We see Edius moving in to the Broadcast market.
    Cheaper and faster seems to drive the industry.

    Edius NEO looks like the perfect tool to get Edius out to schools.

    Will see what the future will bring.

    By the way there where also rumors that liquid will die a hororable dead very soon.
    Steve
    EDIUS Trainer, Grass Cutter Gold
    A proud EDIUS EDITOR
    For more information on the Grass Cutter program please visit: http://www.grass-cutters.net

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    • #3
      Originally posted by SRsupport View Post
      Everybody was talking about Apple buying Avid.
      Avid wasn't even at IBC. Things must be really bad.

      We see Edius moving in to the Broadcast market.
      Cheaper and faster seems to drive the industry.

      Edius NEO looks like the perfect tool to get Edius out to schools.

      Will see what the future will bring.

      By the way there where also rumors that liquid will die a hororable dead very soon.
      Avid were at IBC: Are you mad? Neo is something that most can offer on a free DVD, allthough the price for DV edit with decent software just went up - now that Pinnacle (Avid) Liquid got killed.
      Problem might be: What can Canopus offer the broadcast industry as newcomer to the NLE market if Avid and Pinnacle are gone?

      Can Canopus fill the gap that ///FAST Multimedia in Germany could? even under the control of Avid?

      Today's competition: A 10 bit codec and software tools from the year 2000. Edius is based on an app from 1990's and not ready for the competition of today. To beat apple you need something that can beat PRO RES. PC has just CINEFORM and Premiere. DV and DVCPRO is taken for granted these days and soon for offer on a free DVD from a magazine. NEO has only a very low price for DV - the broadcast industry is the battle for the immediate future. Edius is king for formats and DVCPRO HD, XDCAM etc. but misses the support for higher bitrates and resolutions. Ergo: Canopus has no 10 bit codec.

      Edius might suddenly be left as the only competition for PC and needs to fill the holes in the market that an Apple takeover might leave. It's just speculation.
      Last edited by xeberdee; 09-13-2007, 10:25 AM.
      ¤ž€ß¤

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      • #4
        Originally posted by xeberdee View Post
        Avid were at IBC: Are you mad? Neo is something that most can offer on a free DVD, allthough the price for DV edit with decent software just went up - now that Pinnacle (Avid) Liquid got killed.
        Problem might be: What can Canopus offer the broadcast industry as newcomer to the NLE market?

        Can Canopus fill the gap that ///FAST Multimedia in Germany can?

        Today's goal: A 10 bit codec and software tools from the year 2000. Edius is based on an app from 1990's and not ready for the competition today. To beat apple you something that can beat PRO RES. PC has just CINEFORM on Premiere. The battle for the next generation has begun. Edius is left as the only contender in the battle. (As good as)
        Canopus offers realtime mixed format support.
        Native P2 support.

        BTW I must have missed AVid because the Digidesign was with Protools but I have not seen an Avid booth.
        I had looked at the floor plan and only saw the digidesign devision.

        I could be wrong but the only avid devision was booth 7.928 protools
        Last edited by SRsupport; 09-13-2007, 01:27 AM.
        Steve
        EDIUS Trainer, Grass Cutter Gold
        A proud EDIUS EDITOR
        For more information on the Grass Cutter program please visit: http://www.grass-cutters.net

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by SRsupport View Post
          Canopus offers realtime mixed format support.
          Native P2 support.

          BTW I must have missed AVid because the Digidesign was with Protools but I have not seen an Avid booth.
          I had look in the floor plan and only saw the digidesign devision.

          I could be wrong but the only avid the devision was both 7.928 protools
          Please see my edits. Question is not if Avid were at IBC, just if Edius can fill the gap?
          ¤ž€ß¤

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          • #6
            Edius is based on an app from 1990's and not ready for the competition of today.
            You've been away for a while? Edius is a completely new development. And maybe the fastest most realtime mixed format app on the market today. If you want to start a flame war, please look somewhere else.

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            • #7
              Hmmm. qoute:Avid were at IBC: Are you mad? end quote.

              I guess I must have misread that.

              Anyway I can answer your question with a question.
              Show me an editor that can do real time mixed format , has native P2 off the timeline.

              There a lot of broadcaster using Edius world wide.
              So EDIUS much have a lot to offer to their workflow.

              SR
              Steve
              EDIUS Trainer, Grass Cutter Gold
              A proud EDIUS EDITOR
              For more information on the Grass Cutter program please visit: http://www.grass-cutters.net

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by SRsupport View Post
                Show me an editor that can do real time mixed format , has native P2 off the timeline.
                SR
                I can... me, with EDIUS 4 Broadcast of course. Ha Ha! All kidding aside EDIUS is coming to a position to be respected in the relm that Avid has dominated for far too long. I didn't see any strong presence of Avid editing systems either. Mostly FCP and EDIUS of course. Now EDIUS has XDCAM EX support Yeah! drool drool.

                BTW SR, it was really great to have met you and the others at IBC!
                John Glantz

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                • #9
                  Nice to have met you. Maybe next year we can go for some beers. :)

                  SR
                  Steve
                  EDIUS Trainer, Grass Cutter Gold
                  A proud EDIUS EDITOR
                  For more information on the Grass Cutter program please visit: http://www.grass-cutters.net

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    You're on!
                    John Glantz

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                    • #11
                      What are these rumours about Liquid being gone? The only thing happening to Liquid is that Pinnacle are taking it back.
                      BTW, they just released V7.2.

                      But EIDUS is king in multiformat, hopefully they can bring out multi I/O cards like AJA's with film resolution and 10 bit support- then the battle will really be on.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Zorro View Post
                        You've been away for a while? Edius is a completely new development. And maybe the fastest most realtime mixed format app on the market today. If you want to start a flame war, please look somewhere else.
                        I'm just asking a simple question, not starting any war or any kind. My point about Edius based on an app from the 90's is true. Edius tools like the 3d picture in picture editor are relics from the past. Useable but not cool. What about alpha or 4:4:4 workflows? Most editors want these.

                        Edius has a great realtime 8 bit workflow to be sure. I'm asking if we can expect to see support for 10bit workflows and some decent tools. I sell and recommend editing solutions. 80% of the people I deal with choose Final Cut and a Macintosh. They don't want Edius because of the lack of support for things like 10 bit & masking tools.

                        Edius HD systems (HDSDI) are too expensive compared to the competition. HDSDI into Edius is like throwing away quality and working in 8bit for the sake of realtime. It would be nice to have the option of going 10 bits on a system that costs what Edius HD does. An Apple and an AJA can do it for nearly half the price.

                        By the way Shueardm: It would be great to see Liquid out in the open again. Where did you hear this? I know that Avid gave them back control of the sales, but Pinnacle is still as far as I know owned by Avid (soon Apple)
                        Last edited by xeberdee; 09-13-2007, 10:23 AM.
                        ¤ž€ß¤

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                        • #13
                          Hi

                          It's all here

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                          • #14
                            hey guys (and gals)

                            anyone care to elaborate on the "everybody was talking about it rumors"?
                            my sources who were there, including some folks close to Apple, said they heard nothing of these rumors. nada.
                            do we now who was doing the speculating? and was it just on the GVG stand ;

                            as for whether it would be a good thing, well obviously it would be good for Apple/FCP ... but could also be good for any and all other PC NLE players, especialy if Apple nixed the PC development/support.

                            Edius has the potential to be a strong player in the wider broadcast NLE market, but yes I'd agree with the others that some basic things would have to change. but GVG are far from ewbies in the broadcast field ... they know very well what their customers want/need, and are unlikely to ignore their own instincts and experience

                            Andy

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by shueardm View Post
                              Hi

                              It's all here
                              Yep. That's what I read too. Avid are letting their Pinnacle division do the development work and sales for Liquid again. Liquid (even Chrome) is still trapped at the consumer end of a famous and widely used product line from Avid. I can't see any reason why AVID will let Pinnacle offer more features/formats/I/O than they do for less money, which is what Pinnacle did before they got tookover. If Pinnacle hadn't been taken over, do you think that Liquid Chrome would have supported all flavours of DVCPRO HD? or that Blue would have been EOL?. Liquid will always be one step behind the rest of Avids line. That's just business sense.


                              You could look at this in 2 ways.

                              1. Pinnacle (///FAST Germany) get back on the saddle to manage Liquid buisness. If Apple does a takeover of Avid then Pinnacle Germany are ready to go it alone again. Good for Liquid - Avid make money on the sale.
                              2. Avid are really committed to the development of Liquid and want the developers from Germany to continue creating systems bearing the name Pinnacle that offer more for a fraction of the cost of similar Avid products. Not good for Avid - Avid loose money and market shares/identity.

                              Given the rumour about Apple. This is either a strange or not so strange development.
                              Last edited by xeberdee; 09-13-2007, 03:29 PM.
                              ¤ž€ß¤

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