NTSC m2v/ac3 in NTSC DV project

[Khoi Pham]

Well I can confirm that problem here, I change it to lower field first and it clears up but stutter. Also try this, put a dv clip on a d1 project, drag a white balance filter to it and it will shrink a few pixels making it looks soft.

[antonsvideo]

Anton I just figured something out....your mpeg2 file is upper fields first. Change it to lower fields after importing, and see if that blur issue is gone. I just checked your m2v again and only a tiny "position shift" is visible, but not blur.

Please let me know the results.

I no longer have Edius 4.51c so I can't test, it works perfect in 4.03

in any case, the problem is a confirmed bug by Canopus Australia and field order should be irrelevant to sharpness

[STORMDAVE]

I have just found the same problem - yesterday I started a D1 PAL project. It will contain material from many different sources including clips from DVDs I have authored previously with Edius. When I imported the DVD clips either as Edius ProCoder Express m2v files (which I had kept on a LaCie), or by using Edius DiscCapture from the actual DVD, some were very soft when played from the timeline.

I found that it seems to be a field order issue - D1 is top field first and DV is bottom field first - the DVD clips which were soft also seem to have originated from Edius projects which were set as DV.

When I changed the field order of one of the soft clips in the Edius properties dialog, the result played from the timeline was sharp again, but of course motion flickered very badly, so it is unusable either way.

Perhaps Edius has done some sort of clever (but lossy, hence soft) rendering when importing an MPEG with a different field order from that of the project?

Now I don't know whether to try an external program to change the field order or whether I'll have to use a DVD player and capture the analogue component signal.

Whoops just noticed this after my findings. Do you notice the tiny "position" shift (about 1 pixel) after changing your m2v file to LFF?

Edius reads the m2v field order flag correctly.

[STORMDAVE]

Anton I just figured something out....your mpeg2 file is upper fields first. Change it to lower fields after importing, and see if that blur issue is gone. I just checked your m2v again and only a tiny "position shift" is visible, but not blur.

Please let me know the results.

[antonsvideo]

this problem is being worked on and a patch should be out in October

meanwhile I no longer have this problem with 4.03

[Proton]

I have just found the same problem - yesterday I started a D1 PAL project. It will contain material from many different sources including clips from DVDs I have authored previously with Edius. When I imported the DVD clips either as Edius ProCoder Express m2v files (which I had kept on a LaCie), or by using Edius DiscCapture from the actual DVD, some were very soft when played from the timeline.

I found that it seems to be a field order issue - D1 is top field first and DV is bottom field first - the DVD clips which were soft also seem to have originated from Edius projects which were set as DV.

When I changed the field order of one of the soft clips in the Edius properties dialog, the result played from the timeline was sharp again, but of course motion flickered very badly, so it is unusable either way.

Perhaps Edius has done some sort of clever (but lossy, hence soft) rendering when importing an MPEG with a different field order from that of the project?

Now I don't know whether to try an external program to change the field order or whether I'll have to use a DVD player and capture the analogue component signal.

[antonsvideo]

it never happened in 4.03 or any earlier version

it not only happens to m2v, it also happens to D1 and DV files

place a DV file in a D1 project and it will be soft
place a D1 file in a DV project and it will be soft

I have losts of D1 stock footage that I currently can't use directly in a DV project

[STORMDAVE]

Do you remember if this happened prior to 4.51c? I have never noticed it...nor looked at it? Never got any complaints...but I don't use m2v files for professional projects, I tend to convert them to a different format first.

[antonsvideo]

they need to fix this and similar issues

[STORMDAVE]

Just tried my own file (that I created out of ProCoder2) and I get the same as you. About 5-10% of softness on a DV setting...D1 is much sharper.

[STORMDAVE]

Just checked it, and you're right. I tried a D1 and DV NX preset with 16:9 settings and 4:3. Even under 4:3 it is a bit softer than a D1 preset.

I wonder if this is for the output only? If you re-render, is it still soft?

I did a small (read: cheap) job that I had to rip a DVD for someone and dump it to a DVCAM tape...and didn't notice this. I must've not been paying attention to it.

[antonsvideo]

here you go, 16:9 clip from my latest Tai Chi project
http://www.videoproductions.com.au/edius45/dave.m2v (4mb)

you will see that the TmPro text is way sharper in a D1 720x486 setting

[STORMDAVE]

Sure, can you send me a tiny clip by any chance? I think TMPG can cut up a small chunk. I've used 720x480 M2V's without problems in 4.51c previously, I just want to see if it's only your file that's causing this..

[antonsvideo]

Dave, since you are a native NTSC user, can you do a test with a 720x480 m2v and then switch between D1/DV and see if there is a quality difference

[antonsvideo]

it is 720x480