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  • Render to Final what AVI

    Dear

    I have multi edit PC
    what I mean is like 5 Edius Computer
    and all editor edit together ..

    when it is done I am going to export to AVI
    ( but I am not sure what avi to export )
    Lossess seem to be very big ..
    if I covert to 1920 x 1080 standard .. how must loss do I get
    seavideo

  • #2
    export to Canopus HQ standard, it is very good quality and small file size compared to Lossless
    Anton Strauss
    Antons Video Productions - Sydney

    EDIUS X WG with BM Mini Monitor 4k and BM Mini Recorder, Gigabyte X299 UD4 Pro, Intel Core i9 9960X 16 Core, 32 Threads @ 4.3Ghz, Corsair Water Cooling, Gigabyte RTX-2070 Super 3X 8GB Video Card, Samsung 860 Pro 512GB SSD for System, 8TB Samsung Raid0 SSD for Video, 2 Pioneer BDR-209 Blu-ray/DVD burners, Hotswap Bay for 3.5" Sata and 2.5" SSD, Phanteks Enthoo Pro XL Tower, Corsair 32GB DDR4 Ram, Win10 Pro 21H2

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    • #3
      I have always kept a HQfine exported master file for further conversion in T5 etc, and stored this HQ back-up in my 'filing'.

      Now that I have switched from HDV to AVCHD 50p my footage clearly has much more detail and even my final HQfine export is in 50i, my master file has increased by 70% to 100% compared to the edited masters from HDV source.

      Should it suffice to only keep a HQstandard master file as opposed to the HQfine masters I create now ?

      Reason I ask is that my system is not powerfull enough to play / edit native [email protected] so I always convert to HQfine before edit, I keep the original recorded files on 2 separate 2Tb HDD's and the final edit on one 2Tb HDD.
      after making the DVD & BluRay I only back-up the project files from AW4 & still images if any are used.

      My HDD's with the original footage is filling up only slowly (150~200Gb a month), this is fine, my HQfine master file very large can't keep up with being HDD's :)

      Unfortunately LTO is not an option as it is over budget and needs to be ordered from far away.
      E5.51 + E6.05 / NX HD / Win7 x64 / intel X3366 / 9800 GTX+
      Imaginate 2 / TMPGEnc VMW5 / TMPGEnc AW4 / WaveLab 4.

      Comment


      • #4
        ive found - unscientifically that unless the camera is over $5,000 USD then HQ standard will give the same results as HQ fine.

        If you use a consumer or prosumer camcorder there is little point using fine as it wont suddenly add more detail.

        You can think of HQ standard as MPEG-2 at 100mbs (it isn't but its a good analogy to comprehand the quality) and HQ fine as 200mbs

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        • #5
          This is the LTO3 HH I have http://www.shoprbc.com/ca/shop/produ....php?pid=37607 LTO3 tapes are about $28Can this was less than any of my cameras. It has worked great. LTO3 tapes are 400G so will hold about 4 of my full 4 camera theatre projects. The latest LTO4 is a little more expensive and a lot faster.

          Ron Evans
          Ron Evans

          Threadripper 1920 stock clock 3.7, Gigabyte Designare X399 MB, 32G G.Skill 3200CL14, 500G M.2 NVME OS, 500G EVO 850 temp. 1T EVO 850 render, 6T Source, 2 x 1T NVME, MSI 1080Ti 11G , EVGA 850 G2, LG BLuray Burner, BM IP4K, WIN10 Pro, Shuttle Pro2

          ASUS PB328 monitor, BenQ BL2711U 4K preview monitor, EDIUS X, 9.5 WG, Vegas 18, Resolve Studio 18


          Cameras: GH5S, GH6, FDR-AX100, FDR-AX53, DJI OSMO Pocket, Atomos Ninja V x 2

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          • #6
            Just using consumer CX700, surely it won't make it better by using an oversized bit rate, but coming from an audio back ground, to mix & edit at a much higher bit rate & sample frequency has many benefits.

            When it comes to video am not wel learned and often I am over causious not too invoke generation loss etc when doing re-edits, so far HQfine has served me well but maybe the HQstandard setting is all I need, I really do want o maintain quality but these file sizes are killers for storage on a tight(er) budget.
            E5.51 + E6.05 / NX HD / Win7 x64 / intel X3366 / 9800 GTX+
            Imaginate 2 / TMPGEnc VMW5 / TMPGEnc AW4 / WaveLab 4.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Ron Evans View Post
              This is the LTO3 HH I have http://www.shoprbc.com/ca/shop/produ....php?pid=37607 LTO3 tapes are about $28Can this was less than any of my cameras. It has worked great. LTO3 tapes are 400G so will hold about 4 of my full 4 camera theatre projects. The latest LTO4 is a little more expensive and a lot faster.

              Ron Evans
              If it was easy to purchase then maybe it would be a better option, it is not an stock item every where in the world, that is a big issue for computer users (more than average office pc's) in Asia.

              The next even bigger problem is the extreme humidity and fluctuating temperatures, storage of tapes becomes an issue.
              Daytime most spaces are air-conditioned at night without, you can't fully compare DVtape with computer back up tape but storage mechanics are similar.

              I have HDV tapes in the office who are having fungus / molding problem, at home HDV & DV tapes stored without Aircon are drying up and older tapes turn in extreme conditions to powder.

              I still tend to trust HDD's more than tape (in my part of the world) I think only regulated environments (24/7) will keep tape in tip top condition.

              I do have HDD failures, for sure, but less headache to me than tapes (for my case that is)
              E5.51 + E6.05 / NX HD / Win7 x64 / intel X3366 / 9800 GTX+
              Imaginate 2 / TMPGEnc VMW5 / TMPGEnc AW4 / WaveLab 4.

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              • #8
                With tapeless source there is a need to backup and for me that means at least two places for important stuff. With the CX700 you will have about 12G an hour. 160 hours or so on a 2T drive. The lowest cost is likely 3, 2T drives, 2 ( RAID 1 or just two copies) for source and project backup and 1 for finished project output ( I just kept the .iso files as output on the hard drive so that I could make copies easily not the HQ files.Don't bother with HQ output backup as you can always reproduce from source and project backups) together with SD and Bluray discs if that is what you make. I started this way when I had a mix of tape and AVCHD( though with 1Tdrives at the time) before I got the LTO3 tape drive.

                You need to manage drive naming and lettering so that projects will not get confused.


                Ron Evans

                edit: I have one 2T drive on the PC for source and the other backup used in the Thermaltake dock. The finished project drive is the other 2T in the PC. I now do not use the second copy of the source to hard drive replaced by the tape backup and clean out the source drive on the PC of oldest projects when needed, same for finished output drive. Working files are on the RAID that gets cleaned off when finished.
                Last edited by Ron Evans; 09-04-2011, 04:59 PM.
                Ron Evans

                Threadripper 1920 stock clock 3.7, Gigabyte Designare X399 MB, 32G G.Skill 3200CL14, 500G M.2 NVME OS, 500G EVO 850 temp. 1T EVO 850 render, 6T Source, 2 x 1T NVME, MSI 1080Ti 11G , EVGA 850 G2, LG BLuray Burner, BM IP4K, WIN10 Pro, Shuttle Pro2

                ASUS PB328 monitor, BenQ BL2711U 4K preview monitor, EDIUS X, 9.5 WG, Vegas 18, Resolve Studio 18


                Cameras: GH5S, GH6, FDR-AX100, FDR-AX53, DJI OSMO Pocket, Atomos Ninja V x 2

                Comment


                • #9
                  Ron, you actually made a very good point, I can always re-create the project as long as I back-up the source material and Edius project files.

                  It would be nice that up on restoring Edius will actually show you (with i.e. a marker) if it can't restore an effect or filter, that's my only gripe at the moment.

                  Maybe once I upgrade to a new machine that can play the 50p files I will stop the HQ back-up al together.
                  E5.51 + E6.05 / NX HD / Win7 x64 / intel X3366 / 9800 GTX+
                  Imaginate 2 / TMPGEnc VMW5 / TMPGEnc AW4 / WaveLab 4.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I just started to work tapeless a few months back, too used to have a DV or HDV master tape as extra back up, still very jumpy when it comes to formatting the cam's memory :)
                    E5.51 + E6.05 / NX HD / Win7 x64 / intel X3366 / 9800 GTX+
                    Imaginate 2 / TMPGEnc VMW5 / TMPGEnc AW4 / WaveLab 4.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by mattie View Post
                      ive found - unscientifically that unless the camera is over $5,000 USD then HQ standard will give the same results as HQ fine.
                      I think it's not really the price of the camera but rather the codec used, a Canon xf100 with it's mpeg2, 50mb 4:2:2 codec might be better of with HQFINE while any other 16-24mbs 4:2:0 avchd camcorder might benefit more from HQ standard?

                      I have been working with HQFINE all the time but I like to save a bit more on space as files can become very large depending on it's source (I work with hdv, avchd and dslr mov files), last week I did a test between cineform neoscene (for premiere cs5) and canopus hqavi (Edius 5.51) and with neoscene you can choose a similar bitrate high and standard/medium setting, when choosing high setting with neoscene you get a visual identical file compared to the original (I compared frames in photoshop expanded 400%) but at medium setting small artifacts appeared.
                      To my surprise edius hqavi showed no difference between high and standard and with a bitrate similar to neoscene's medium setting, the source file was a avchd and a dslr.mov file so from now I will be using HQstandard and save quite some space.

                      One thing I noticed though, neoscene at high setting did not show any difference to the original file, only with hqavi the image get's a little bit "flatter", I don't see any difference in details but it looks like the hqavi file has a bit less contrast, is that normal?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        It is important on restore to have all the hard drive ID's the same etc. Then it will all work. I see your point about tape in your environment though hard drives may have similar issues over time. I have restored a few projects from tape and they just appear in Edius just fine. My main Edius project files are located on my TEMP drive and backed up with the Boot drive backup. I have a directory for each project that contains stills, documentation, disc printing file, DVD box printing file etc and when I backup to tape I include another copy of the Edius project file too. Rather excessive for a hobby !!!!

                        I too was a little concerned the first time I reformatted the memory in the camcorders. I transfer to PC immediately and then backup to tape after checking that they all play fine on the PC. I don't take off the camera until I need the space, taking off the oldest first etc by which time I have finished editing and have backups of the finished project anyway.

                        I wouldn't go back to video tape now. Since most of my stuff is 4 camera theatre I used to spend almost a day just capturing tape to the PC before I started editing . Now I transfer all 4 cameras in about an hour.

                        Ron Evans
                        Ron Evans

                        Threadripper 1920 stock clock 3.7, Gigabyte Designare X399 MB, 32G G.Skill 3200CL14, 500G M.2 NVME OS, 500G EVO 850 temp. 1T EVO 850 render, 6T Source, 2 x 1T NVME, MSI 1080Ti 11G , EVGA 850 G2, LG BLuray Burner, BM IP4K, WIN10 Pro, Shuttle Pro2

                        ASUS PB328 monitor, BenQ BL2711U 4K preview monitor, EDIUS X, 9.5 WG, Vegas 18, Resolve Studio 18


                        Cameras: GH5S, GH6, FDR-AX100, FDR-AX53, DJI OSMO Pocket, Atomos Ninja V x 2

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by noafilm View Post
                          I think it's not really the price of the camera but rather the codec used, a Canon xf100 with it's mpeg2, 50mb 4:2:2 codec might be better of with HQFINE while any other 16-24mbs 4:2:0 avchd camcorder might benefit more from HQ standard?
                          There is no reason why to use HQ for AVCHD, but not for HDV or 50Mit MPEG2. All this codes are quiet heavy lossy, but that's what consumer cameras are about. Prosumer goes for AVC-I, which is much better quality, but also lossy. High end is 10bit uncompressed or 12/16bit raw files or for less demanding projects ProRes, when using Arri Alexa.
                          Trick is to use prosumer/consumer cameras (quite often they use same sensor as expensive ones) with external recorders to bypass compression :)

                          You can always stay with native formats when using Edius.
                          Converting to HQ gives you better RT performance, but does not really improve quality. It can in some cases- if codec has good 4:2:0 to 4:2:2 (or 4:4:4, like Cineform) sampling interpolation this is good and your new source files will be better and any filtering will perform better. If you do simple editing, not much effects you can always stay with native files, but even than I would advise to use HQ for final exports. I don't really understand argument that HQ is big- 2TB drives cost not a lot- much more costly is to buy i7 PC for better RT editing with native files. Few 2TB drives are enough for hundreds of hours and cost less than i7 processors itself :)

                          Cineform may be bit more efficient than HQ, but difference is not big. You can also use custom setting for HQ and tweak Q,Size settings until you're happy with quality/size ratio.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Thanks for the info ..

                            I will get 2 x 2TB HD
                            And Backup the RAW and the HQ standard

                            BUt about the Bit .. I am Also Using CX700 and XR550

                            Do i Need to use 1080i or 1080 p FOr mY project

                            And 8 bit or 10 bit .??
                            seavideo

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Ron Evans View Post
                              I wouldn't go back to video tape now.

                              Now I transfer all 4 cameras in about an hour.


                              Ron Evans
                              (Sorry, slightly off topic)

                              Ron, do you bring in the AVCHD footage using Edius source browser, PMB or Windows explorer.

                              I never shoot long duration so file splitting is not an issue for me but transfer speed is a big issue with the CX700.

                              I assume that the bigger (pro) AVCHD cam's have much faster transfer rate's but how do you use the smaller cam's ?

                              I was thinking of getting my self a few 32GB SD cards (maybe 64GB) and forget about the internal (great but snail speed) storage and try that way.

                              If you need a clip fast you might be able Edit from the card straight in Edius without transferring first, now there is no way of doing so, how do you tackle this problem ?
                              Attached Files
                              E5.51 + E6.05 / NX HD / Win7 x64 / intel X3366 / 9800 GTX+
                              Imaginate 2 / TMPGEnc VMW5 / TMPGEnc AW4 / WaveLab 4.

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