1080p/50:Print to file:File settings

[basjoe]

My camera (Panasonic TM700) is capable of 1080p/50 recording. As I understand it, the files it produces conform to the AVCHD 2.0 standard, the system data rate of which is 28Mbit/s. Edius (Neo 3) can handle these files without problems, and editing is a breeze. When starting the project I just use the 1920x1080 50p preset.

But when I want to "Print to file" my finished project I am faced with a dilemma. I'd really like a no-compromise result. The list of available Exporter presets under "AVCHD" does not include a 1920x1080 50p option. If instead I take the "H.264/AVC" route, then I notice that the available bit rates do not go up to 28Mbit/s (stopping at around 17Mbit/s). I'm guessing this rules out mpeg4.

So, it would appear that if I want a no-compromise print of my project I must use mpeg2, with resultant large files. If I click on the "Advanced" arrow to get deep into the options, I start to get unstuck because this technical information is somewhat outside my naive knowledge.

Do I need to "Crop Overscan area" for example. Should the "Default TC Mode" be Drop Frame or Non Drop Frame. And when it comes to the Program Stream settings (Basic Settings), should I use CBR or VBR, and at what Avg/Max Bit Rate settings.

I'd really appreciate some advice from people who use these features.

Best Regards
Basjoe

[Claire]

Hi Basjoe,

rushing out right now but Anton has screen shots showing what you need for 1080/50P MPG2 export, I use his template a lot at 35Mb/sec or 50Mb/sec depending on what I have shot using 28Mb/sec stuff from a TM900, these are amazing cameras, more people need to see the fantastic resolution from them in 1080/50P mode.

Check out this thread

[EraseAndRewind]

people need to see the fantastic resolution from them in 1080/50P mode.

Indeed very true, wish I could afford more than my current NX but as it's only a hobby, it means for me 50p (CX700) footage on a 50i timeline and it works also great, but 50p direct on a good TV does even look a tad better.

[basjoe]

Thanks Claire (and Anton for the settings). I experimented and found that the "Profile and Level" setting ("MP&HL") made no difference to the output, so I've left it on "Auto". Also, I somehow preferred a 35Mbit/s bit rate, although the benefits of this may well be subjective to the point of being imaginary.

I used a test project of approx 11' 30" duration, and the following file sizes were produced

• H.264/AVC Mpeg4 17Mbits/s 1.06gb

• Mpeg2 25Mbit/s 2.21gb

• Mpeg2 35Mbit/s 3.09gb

• Mpeg2 50Mbit/s 4.50gb

There is no doubt that the adoption of the AVCHD 2.0 standard in Edius would produce much more manageable (ie. practical) Mpeg4 file sizes. Let's hope the Edius engineers are soon on the case.

Anyway, thanks again.

Best Regards
Basjoe

[Erik N]

Storing 1080 50p

I have done a thorough test of "PS 28Mbit/s 1080 50p" recordings and compared these with the 1080 50i downconverted version and you do suffer a loss in quality that appears quite unnecessary.

Sony now claim that all their BD players ending with "70 and 80" do play the above quality i.e. AVCHD 2.0. The remaining link seems to be the burning of this quality onto BDs which surely must be soon available.

The full "PS format" does give greater detail and more of an experience of
"3D" in ordinary 2D recordings. You would not want to record in lesser qualities which surely must disappear in the future.

[Red Union Films]

I have done a thorough test of "PS 28Mbit/s 1080 50p" recordings and compared these with the 1080 50i downconverted version and you do suffer a loss in quality that appears quite unnecessary.

Sony now claim that all their BD players ending with "70 and 80" do play the above quality i.e. AVCHD 2.0. The remaining link seems to be the burning of this quality onto BDs which surely must be soon available.

The full "PS format" does give greater detail and more of an experience of
"3D" in ordinary 2D recordings. You would not want to record in lesser qualities which surely must disappear in the future.

Hi all.


You will find many devices capable of playing 50/60 1080P, in a few different codecs and containers. Among these will be certain Blu-ray players, although these will be played as files and not as authored BD discs. You should be able to either just burn a file to a disc (CD, DVD, Blu-ray, as a rom in the usual way) or play off USB, depending on what media player you use.

A couple of posts on the forum have suggested that converting 50P to 50I is ok, it is not. Whether you are waiting for so called AVCHD 2.0 devices, or already have a 50/50P playback device. Never convert 50P to 50I like you would with 25P to 50I, you will only destroy the motion and temporal advantage of the format.

If you can't playback 1080 50P then use either of the other 2 1080 formats to shoot in, at least they will play back within the Blu-ray video format. 1080 25 progressive frames per second if you prefer a more film like look, or 1080 50 interlaced fields per second if you prefer smoother motion and pans and a more traditional TV type look. Both play back in 50I just fine. This is all the same for NTSC people and 60P/30P/60I.

With major Hollywood directors/producers looking into shooting with double progressive frame formats from 48 through to 50,60, and higher. For action movies and the obvious advantage of motion/movement/pans etc. It won't be too long before 50/60P and maybe 48P and higher, become part of the Blu-ray video format.

Now that high end cinema has finally caved in to the obvious commercial and technically superior intergratable advantages of shooting digitally. Don't be surprised to see changes to formats and wider possible deliveries to more and more digital cinemas and online delivery methods.

Cheers.

Dave.

[Claire]

I have done a thorough test of "PS 28Mbit/s 1080 50p" recordings and compared these with the 1080 50i downconverted version and you do suffer a loss in quality that appears quite unnecessary.

Sony now claim that all their BD players ending with "70 and 80" do play the above quality i.e. AVCHD 2.0. The remaining link seems to be the burning of this quality onto BDs which surely must be soon available.

The full "PS format" does give greater detail and more of an experience of
"3D" in ordinary 2D recordings. You would not want to record in lesser qualities which surely must disappear in the future.

Erik, I totally agree with your findings, the reason for the quality loss (easily seen on my Edius system) is because when converted from 50P to 50i each frame gets reduced to only half height before being interlaced with the next frame that suffers the same gigantic drop in vertical resolution. Then since it's now interlaced, artifacts appear where there were none previously,

When one becomes accustomed to working with 1080/50P it's hard to go back, hence my own investment in a Storm 3G to accommodate this new format as I could not see myself ignoring this considerable step up in quality for HD filming.

As you alluded to in your post, I also feel the future holds the answer to the BD delivery problem, after all the ambition of the BBC and other broadcasters in Europe is to eventually transmit 1080P/50. However, for now I don't see any sense in recording 50i with these new cameras, 1080P/50 is the way to go. Edius 6 can export it to 50i, HD or SD or whatever if required while the high quality original can be played on other players and used finally in all it's pristene glory when Blu-ray specs eventually get updated.