Chroma Keying from DSLR or 4/3 cameras

[DigitalDave]

I have searched for this but drew a blank.
In short and if I understand things correctly, DSLR or 4/3 cameras all use an H264 compression.
If the intention is to Chroma Key is there an advantage/disadvantage over other codecs?
Would converting to HQ or Lossless help or hinder or make Jack S*&t of difference?
Does AVCHD Key better than DVCam (HDV is usually worse)

I have neither camera to play with but would hire in for testing if there was going to be an advantage.

Thanks

David

[Jerry]

Avchd cameras are 4:2:0. The panasonic af100
I think that is the number, offers avc-
intra on p2 cards. This is about a $5k option.
With that you get 4:2:2 10 bit.
The decklink shuttle will record uncompressed
4:2:2 from sdi or hdmi outputs.

[Red Union Films]

Hi David.

As Jerry said, most of this stuff will be 4:2:0 H264 or something else at 8 bit 4:2:0 As you have suggested, using an intermediate like 10 Bit 4:2:2 HQX will not give you jack, as your original colour space is what makes the difference.

Although PAL DV is only 8 bit 4:2:0, some others use 4:1:1, if I remeber correctly it is an intraframe codec. So although the colour space may be the same there is less compression per frame than say HDV, which probably helps it a little better for keying.

I use an EX3, which looks great, but not so good for clean keying unless you record 10bit from the SDI. If you have an option, try using something that can record over SDI or HDMI to an intraframe 10bit 4:2:2 intermediate. Or use something with the excellent Panasonic 100Mbit codec. MPEG2 4:2:2 codecs are also good, although they are likely to be 8bit, so although your chroma sub sampling is better, your colour range is still limited to what your other typical 8 bit codec would be.

Sorry if this does not help your situation much.

Cheers.

Dave.

[GrassValley_PS]

Let me add that I am seeing some great keying from the Robuskey plugin with 4:2:0 clips. Much better than what we could get with the EDIUS keyed. I ran into this at a station last week where EDIUS absolutely could not pull a clean key but Robuskey had no problem right from the start.

[GrassValley_SL]

The cool thing that Robuskey is a filter.
The effects you can create....:)

[Jerry]

I agree with Pat. Robuskey does some excellent 4:2:0 keys.
The better the key source the better the keyer works.

[antonsvideo]

Let me add that I am seeing some great keying from the Robuskey plugin with 4:2:0 clips.

sorry, but that is the understatement of the year

Robuskey does such mind blowing keys that have never been seen before in such a price range

[Philip]

Let me add that I am seeing some great keying from the Robuskey plugin with 4:2:0 clips. Much better than what we could get with the EDIUS keyed. I ran into this at a station last week where EDIUS absolutely could not pull a clean key but Robuskey had no problem right from the start.

I've been playing with Robuskey as well. I'm doing a tutorial in my series on it but it is the last one so it won't be out till sometime in September. In my playing around I have found it does amazing stuff. I found this site that has some free samples of bad keys you can download to use for testing.

http://www.hollywoodcamerawork.us/greenscreenplates.html

I downloaded the Godiva Close and Godiva Medium. Edius keyer couldn't handle the lace veil all but Robuskey nailed it. I am going to use a few samples from that site for my tutorial since I don't have much of my own and tough keys will really show how it works. Download a few and try them out. It's amazing what it pulls off.

It won't play RT (at least not on my i7 laptop) but the quality is worth the render.

[Jerry]

Make sure you get permission to use the files within another
package. It could come back and bite you.

[Philip]

Make sure you get permission to use the files within another
package. It could come back and bite you.

That's the cool part. It mentioned on the site that you are allowed to use the files as long as you mention the website where you found them. If you read the "Really Imprortant" orange box at the top of the screen it mentions you are free to use them for training or training videos as long as you mention them in the project. :-). Wish more sites were like that.

[tdtinker]

Does Robuskey have a trial version?
tdtinker

[GrassValley_PS]

Yes it does...30 day

[DigitalDave]

Thanks everyone for the pointers. I'm not using 6 until the NX drivers appear but it seems RobusKey is the way ahead.

[Rusty]

A local shooter used his 5D to shoot a horribly over-lit green screen.
Spill was over the top, leaving the entire shoot useless.

My experience says, mind the green screen lighting to eliminate spill.

[GrassValley_BH]

Although PAL DV is only 8 bit 4:2:0, some others use 4:1:1, if I remeber correctly it is an intraframe codec.

IIRC, PAL DVCPRO is 4:1:1, whereas PAL DV/DVCAM is 4:2:0.
Yup, my memory still works for that part, Adam Wilt's DV FAQ agrees. :)