Blu-Ray Project From Edius

[Mike Truly]

I have a 1280x720 HD project from Edius that will need to end up on a Blu-Ray disc played in a Blu-Ray player connected to an HDTV or projector that is capable.

I will be creating an Edius HD720 30p over 60p project consisting of animations rendered at 30fps with no fields. I have Procoder3 as well.

1. From the finished/rendered HQ files I need to convert these to what format for authoring into a Blu-Ray disc? MPEG2s? (I saw there was a post in the Procoder forum about Blu-Ray presets... I need to read that).

2. Blu-Ray authoring. I assume no Grass Valley products currently handle this so I will be using Adobe Encore CS3 to author (Does DVD-Lab do this yet?). Is Blu-Ray authoring accomplished in a similar fashion to authoring a SD DVD?

3. Blu-Ray burning. Is there a recommended burner or do they all work equally as well?

4. Blu-Ray players. I will be recommending one to my clients (as well as purchasing one for testing). Have others used players they would recommend?

Have others gone through this process (of delivering Blu-Ray dvds) sucessfully or should playback from computer be pursued?

Thanks for any ideas!

[ccoston]

I have Edius 4 and also have the new Production Studio CS3. I started with the Edius NX HDV but I've decided to go with the Matrox/Adobe solution now that CS3 is out. It just works better. Too many weird quirks with the Edius hardware.

As far as blu-ray players go, I decided upon the Samsung BDP-1200. It's their newest model and is around almost everywhere for $599. You can probably find it cheaper, but the reliable resellers are at the price above. The reason I went with it over the 1000 model is that the DVD upscaling is MUCH better in this one due to a better processor.

Burners: 4x are starting to show (around $650), but they are scarce. The 2x burners are running from $450 to $600 and some more. I've been fine with Lite-On, though I haven't gone to the burner yet. That's my immediate need. I haven't ever had much liking for the Sony branded pc drives and the Pioneer is just too expensive, so I think I'll stick with the Lite-On.

As far as formats to throw at Encore, I'd stick with something non-Canopus. I've noticed that adobe and canopus don't like to play well together anymore. Maybe just a standard .m2t file. Again, I haven't tried this yet, as I just got my copy of CS3 the other day.

[tnw2933]

I have made several Blu-ray disks in the BDMV format on both 50 GB dual layer Blu-ray and 25 GB single layer Blu-ray media using Sonic's DVDit Pro HD as the Blu-ray authoring program. You cannot bring .m2t files directly into DVDit Pro HD to author Blu-ray authored disks but rather have to convert them to a Blu-ray compliant mpeg2 file using a program like Video Redo.

For burner the Blu-ray media I use the lacie d2 Blu-ray drive which has worked beautifully for me for several months and in fact, I have yet to create a single coaster with this Blu-ray burner. It is an external USB 2.0 Blu-ray burner and actually uses a Matushita drive mechanism. While it is expensive (not sure of the current price but probably on the order of $650), I can recommend it as being well constructed and reliable.

As mentioned in another thread I have also used DVDit Pro HD to burn Blu-ray projects on to standard red laser DVD's in full high defnition. One is limited to approximately 30 minutes on a single layer red laser DVD and approximately 1 hour on a dual layer red laser DVD and one must keep the bit rates at 22K or less to avoid playback problems on DVD players like my Songy BDP-S1, but the disk do play back well on this player (using the latest firmware) and have complete menus, etc. It is an economical way to prepare high definition DVD's.

Tom

[Mike Truly]

Thanks VERY much for the info folks! Much to learn in this area.

Thanks again.

[Bluetongue]

Re Bluray BDMV disks

Just be careful folks, here in Australia all new players have had the BDMV playback disabled. I have tried the Pioneer, Samsung and latest Panasonic and they will not play.
The early Pana did but not the latest with an "a" suffix.
Pioneer declare Sony pictures have forced the manufacturers to disable the BDMV play back to stop piracy! Not good for us! I dont know if just placing a file on the disk without a menu will work, ULEAD have a system which does a fast write straight from firewire to disk that supposedly works but there is no menu.
Sony playstations still play the Blueray BDMV disk BUT picture quality is not real flash.
I have held off until this gets resolved or Blueray is killed off all together by Sony!
The only feasable way I have to play back is from a DVICO TVix hard disk player but not good for distribution
Sorry to spoil the day
Regards Barry

[Mike Truly]

Barry,

Thanks for the info.

OK folks... sorry to be so ignorant on this entire high definition DVD issue, but I need to understand what the state of the situation is before I drop money (and encourage my clients to do the same).

There's two basic formats... Blu-Ray and HD DVD. Both are similar to SD DVD in that they are merely data storage discs with new methods/lasers/larger capacities, etc. You can make video discs in these formats or store data. From the little I've been following, Blu_Ray seemed to be gaining more widespread acceptance... thus why I am interested in that.

I want to create high definition deliverables in a consistent format and deliver them to my clients with a reliable way for them to be played back.

Barry mentions that SONY, the creator of Blu-Ray, wants to make their discs unplayable? I'm confused here. I understand concerns about piracy, but why would they want to kill their own product? Could someone clarify exactly what good a Blu-Ray video disc would be if you could not play the video back? Sure it's a great capacity storage medium but I want to make high definition video discs.

I also see mentioned that you can create 'mini' high definition video discs on regular SD DVD-R discs. (My projects are very small compared to everyone elses as they are animations that usually run 10 minutes or less so perhaps this is something of an option... but in the long run, I want to make normal high definition video discs for playback).

Thanks for any clarification on this issue.

[Jerry]

There's two basic formats... Blu-Ray and HD DVD. Both are similar to SD DVD in that they are merely data storage discs with new methods/lasers/larger capacities, etc. You can make video discs in these formats or store data. From the little I've been following, Blu_Ray seemed to be gaining more widespread acceptance... thus why I am interested in that.


Actually, there is only one true format for Authoring menu driven HD product.
That is bluray. We have no consumer HD DVD authoring package.
Ulead has one that allows playback on computer, and there is a way to make it work on HD DVD players. It is a work around.
You can use DVDITPROHD, I don't any more, or Encore CS3-much better
authoring a reliability...at least from my experience.

To get playback with bluray, the most reliable and I think sustainable way will be on a PS3($499). As for your clients, if they get the Panasonic or the Big Sony with the latest firmware, they will work. The panasonic is in the 500-600
dollar range and the Sony is in the $800. The $500 sony is not enabled to play BDMV dics.
So if your clients have the money for the players, you can deliver bluray
all day long. Until they remove that feature in the firmware and your client installs the firmware.
I don't know if the removal of BDMV discs in Australia is a trend or
what. I would hope not. But only time will tell.

[Mike Truly]

Jerry,

Thanks very much for this info. The money for playback is not really a problem for my clients (allthough it would raise a few eyebrows if I told them to get a gaming console to playback their work) so I will probably go with one of those players. I will be purchasing one prior anyway for testing.

The removal of BDMV capabilities seems bizarre given that we producers have to be able to produce and playback high definition videos so I'm not sure where that's going but it certainly doesn't make me feel particularly comfortable not understanding whether my equipment will have value in the future.

Thanks again.

[kwshaw1]

Barry mentions that SONY, the creator of Blu-Ray, wants to make their discs unplayable? I'm confused here. I understand concerns about piracy, but why would they want to kill their own product?

There's been an ongoing discussion of this topic on the Roxio Blu-ray forums, and the following is the latest update I could find:

"Blu-ray players first manufactured after Spring of this year are required to support BD-RE v3.0 media (AACS enabled) for playback of recordings where copyright has been asserted (e.g. digital broadcast, managed copy from a Blu-ray movie and similar). These same players may playback authored content from other sources (e.g. home movies) where copyright is not asserted from either BD-RE V3.0 or v2.1 (currently available) media. An exception was made for players produced before Spring this year such that they may playback authored BD movie content from BD-RE V2.1 media, even though they may not support V3.0 media. The PS3 is already fully compliant with the latest requirements. Other players may or may not be depending on current firmware revisions.

"The simple summary is that a consumer can author their own content as they wish using currently available media and play it back on any player that was released prior to Spring 07' as well as any player released since that time, provided that the player can support BD-RE V3.0 media. If a newer player cannot yet support that media type, then BD-RE 2.1 support can be enabled as soon as firmware allows the player to do so."

For more info try this link (registration required): http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?p=168410

[kwshaw1]

By the way, I recommend the Sony Playstation 3 as a useful device for playing HDV files rendered from Edius, and you can connect it to any TV or projector with either an HDMI or component HD inputs. The PS3 works great for displaying HD or SD video content and digital photos, plus it can play music files and surf the internet and connect to your home network and so on...and it happens to be a pretty decent game machine too! It's basically the all-purpose multimedia/computer device some of us have been wanting for years, but it hasn't gotten much publicity for that.

[Mike Truly]

Kevin,

Thanks for the info. I don't have anything against the PS3... just that my clients are attorneys and are displaying this in the courtroom and are more likely to want a BD player if they are dealing with it directly. If they have hired a courtroom playback firm, then that company can worry about what the Blu-Ray disk is played back on.

Thanks again.

[shueardm]

Yeah, it's not that SONY are pulling the feature, it's just that are enforcing the rules on the other manufacturers. They have to comply with those regulations and if they dont then they can not support any kind of BD-R or RE playback. Just a waiting game for the companies to get new firmwares out.

[Mike Truly]

Ahhh... thanks for explaining this.

So the other manufacturers WILL be making their players compatible if they want to play Blu-Ray discs in the future. I see.

Thanks again.

[GrassValley_KH]

Ok guys, time steer this one back on topic or I close it down.

[Mike Truly]

Kenneally,

Sorry. How bout this for steering back on track.

I am contemplating creating my Blu-Ray disc project at 1080 rather than 720. In looking at the Edius project settings, I see 1080i offered but no 1080p... so I guess Edius doesn't do this particular format?

My animation setting would be 1920x1080 30fps no fields. So will this present any problems trying to use this HQ clip in a 1920x1080i project?

(I'm a bit baffled by all this 30p over 60i stuff as you can tell).

Thanks!