Mixing HDV & 16:9 Footage

[lauri]

I have several projects where I have 2 camera shoots.
One camera is the Sony EX1R shot in HD and the other camera is the
Sony dsr 570 2/3rd chip camera shot in SD 16:9

What is the best workflow for me to use from the edit to the encode to obtain the best possible quality? I really want to avoid down converting the
HD footage. I plan to burn to BD


Thank you

Lauri

[lauri]

excuse my ignorance but what is vdub?

[Jerry]

The SD footage should be of pretty decent quality.
If the HDV footage is from the early releases
from Sony, setting to 1440x1080 and loading
the 16x9 SD should work just fine. When
you take it to Blu-Ray, you just might be
surprised.

[lauri]

Hi Andrew & Jerry thank you both for your reply.

I just have several questions as this is the first time I am attempting this.

SD footage is of top quality in 16:9 that is the priority chip of the camera.

The ex1r I believe is the latest release from Sony.

Now what I need is a step by step procedure how to accomplish this.

1. Project settings?
2. What do I do after I convert the SD footage to Canopus HQ?
3. Andrew you mentioned I need to resize the Canpus HQ how do I do that
to match the 1920X1080 for the EX1r?
4. I know I need to throw a sharpen filter onto the SD footage should I do this before or after I convert it to Canopus HQ?
5. This is a constant learning curve as the technology and codecs are constantly changing and new ones are introduced.
5. Anything else either of you can think of?

Thank you

Lauri

[Jerry]

1. Project settings?
2. What do I do after I convert the SD footage to Canopus HQ?
3. Andrew you mentioned I need to resize the Canpus HQ how do I do that
to match the 1920X1080 for the EX1r?
4. I know I need to throw a sharpen filter onto the SD footage should I do this before or after I convert it to Canopus HQ?
5. This is a constant learning curve as the technology and codecs are constantly changing and new ones are introduced.
5. Anything else either of you can think of?

1. Just go for the 1920x1080 setting

2. I would just import the 16x9 footage into Edius and work from that point.
If you have to resize in Edius, open up layouter and adjust accordingly.

3.If you do want to resize and convert to HQ, just open Virtual Dub and tell it what to do.
If you are not familiar with VD, go to http://www.videoproductions.com.au/h...dub-hd-sd.html This is the downscaling tutorial. Just start from the second panel and change the numbers to 1920x1080. You will also have to set the color range to 709, it shows 601 which is SD.
It is much, much easier just to let Edius do the uprez.

4. Do it at the point of Editing. Are you viewing on an external monitor through a GV hardware card? Don't trust a computer monitor for the sharpness. You may just want to make a segment and do several sharpness trials. Put those onto a BD-RE with a menu and view on a tv, then pick the one that looks natural to you. It is a little extra time and work, but you will remember the settings on the next go round. I have also found that the EX1 and similar cameras produce an extremely sharp image. Keep that in mind as you do your adjustments. You can also 'dumb' down the EX1 footage a little as well. It comes to taste . I prefer a slightly muted image. It reduces eye fatique due to the fact that it is not sharp beyond reason.


I just read your specs. How does the EX1 footage edit on your system? If it is slow you may want to just convert it to HQ. If you do that, you might as well take the time to convert the SD to HQ 1920x1080. At that point, all clips will be of the same codec. If you are playing and editing fine with the EX1, just stay native.

[lauri]

What will the upscale from a 720 X 480 to 1920x1080 look like?
Is the 709 color range HD NTSC?

last question where can I get Virtual Dub?

Answer to your question...

I haven't tried to see if the EX footage will play in my system,
probably not very well if at all
so until I get a new system I was trying to figure out a way to do this.

I wonder if after I convert everything if I can edit in SD then change it to HD
on output. I know I will need to redo the titles.

What do you think.... is it possible?

[Rusty]

If you do a cuts-only edit of HQ converted footage you should get by with your current system.

If you have E6, convert to Proxy Mode any you can manage considerably more on a P4 system.

[Jerry]

Lauri,

Virtual Dub is here: http://www.virtualdub.org/

Do a test, that way you can see for yourself what it looks like. A lot of this is experimenting and finding what YOU find acceptable.
That is why I suggested making several test files and viewing them on a TV. You then can make the decision for yourself.
Yes, 709 is the HD Color range.
You are severely limited with the P4. I use one for my surfing machine...and that is about it. It used to be my Rex machine......a long time ago in a ......
I am guessing that you are still on either 4.6 or 5.51. IF you do have Edius 6,
definitely do the proxy and save the conversion time.
As far as titles, if you edit in SD and convert to HD, it will depend on your titler whether or not you have to do anything. Vistitle works in either and adjusts automatically. TMP you will have to open each title and then it will set for HD. Depending on where you placed the title, title track or v track, Quicktitler will adjust depending on placement and settings.

[lauri]

Using 4.54 I tried experimenting with virtual dub and I don't see a color range setting for 709 where is this exactly?

Which will give me better quality lossless or HQ?


Thank you
Lauri

[lauri]

I have quicktitler and title motion pro. If I use region filters I know I need
to adjust those as well....

[Jerry]

Converting to lossless will give you the least amount of noise, however, there is a price to be paid. Your P4 will have to work even harder to make it work. Therefore the HQ suggestion.

Here is a step by step for you.

1. Go to File>Open Video and you should get something along these lines



2. Go to Video>Filters>Add>resize







This is what it should look like

3. Next Video>Color Depth after selection (Top image)
Then Video>Compression (middle image)
Then to select where to put it go to (Bottom Image)
File>save as avi



To be honest, I would just do the uprez with Edius and forget about it. Seriously!!!

[lauri]

ok so I should forget about VD and do the uprez from Edius ok

Next silly question from me step by step how do I do the uprez?

Jerry I can't thank you enough for all your help really I so appreciate your time.

I'm not the only one lost when it comes to these issues some of my friends that have Edius know less than me!


Lauri

[SoundFreak]

When you use a project setting that is Higher resolution than your source it will up-rez automatically, same goes for lower rez project with higher rez source material, it will down-rez, note that Edius up-rez quality is often far better than down-rez.

Use moderate sharpness filter on SD source in HD timeline (something like 15 to 20) don't over do it as it will create artifacts when pushed too hard, just remember that SD can't become HD but it can look pretty (close) good when done right.

As mentioned before, what you see on your PC monitor (Edius overlay) is not what you get on a TV panel !

[Jerry]

ok so I should forget about VD and do the uprez from Edius ok

Next silly question from me step by step how do I do the uprez?

Jerry I can't thank you enough for all your help really I so appreciate your time.

I'm not the only one lost when it comes to these issues some of my friends that have Edius know less than me!


Lauri

Lauri, there are never silly questions. The nice thing about uprezing with Edius is it is automatic. That is why I was pushing the Edius uprez over the VD uprez. Make your project settings the settings of the Ex1..I guess you used 1920x1080. Then import your SD footage and apply to the timeline. The easy thing is that your video is already 16x9. That is a big step in the right direction.
That is it. Simple Simple Simple. Your final file will have the SD uprezed to your project settings.
Play with the sharpness. As Tony said, too much will make it look bad and cause edge artifacting.

Now, for down rezing HD to SD, either use the virtual dub method, as in anton's example, or now he has another tutorial for down rezing in TMPGE 5
http://www.videoproductions.com.au/html/t5-hd-sd.html.
The Virtual Dub method is free. This might make a difference to many.
Don't use Edius to down rez. It is not as good as the other two methods from above.

Added note:
I noticed you were talking about editing in SD in a different thread. That will be ok for you to be able to edit. After the edit is complete, just change your project settings from SD 16x9 to HD 1920x1080 and adjust your titles accordingly. Your SD clip will then be uprezed automatically when you output to the new project settings.