720p to 1080p upscaling

[RichR]

Hi,
I'm new at Edius and video editing in general. Using Edius 5, I was editing a project filmed by the Nikon D90 that I up-scaled from 720p-24fps to 1080p-24fps when fixing the stair-stepping problem with VirtualDub. Now, I have new footage from the Nikon D300s which doesn't seem to need fixing but is also 720p.
I cannot see much of a quality difference between up-scaling the D300s footage from 720p to 1080p with VirtualDub (Lanczos4Resize) and dropping the 720p footage on the 1080p timeline. Does Edius use a special process to automatically upscale 720p footage on a 1080p timeline or does it only do a simple stretch?

Thanks...

[RichR]

Too stupid? ;)

[SoundFreak]

Too stupid? ;)

No question is ever too stupid :)
Not everyone is using progressive footage, not everyone is using progressive footage and does up-scaling like you did.

Then there is the DSLR camera specific model question (few here have tested/shot with anything except video cam's) and the problem that occurs with footage than can hold infinite possibilities of information, it's not that easy to answer this without actually seeing any footage, me thinks.

Just be patient, there will hopefully be an answer for you, sorry I can't help , i shoot i on video cam's exclusively..................

[RichR]

Tony, thanks for the reply.

I should have focused my question on the up-scaling method. What I really want to know is what type of algorithm Edius uses (if any) to up-scale from 720 to 1080 when you drop it on the timeline?

[SoundFreak]

What I really want to know is what type of algorythm Edius uses (if any)

I just build edit systems and use them, occasionally I shoot a bit my self, I have never dissected Edius and looked under the hood..................

Nothing I could change myself inside Edius with a screw driver and a hammer anyway :)


p.s. not sure what your delivery format is but from experience I can share with you that often the playback hardware can upscale with pretty good, of course I refer to interlaced video, not even sure if it is possible with progressive.

edit : This make's me wonder, are you previewing on your computer monitor, on a LCD or Plasma through dedicated hardware, or from a BD disc ? results on you computer monitor will not reveal the actual quality of the footage !

[RichR]

Yeah...I suppose it's information that only the Grass Valley guys can give me.

The camera records AVI files that I just add to the project. No Hardware needed. I'm using a Dell 2405FPW LCD monitor and from the little experience I have, it seems to work out pretty nicely. It also seems that watching these HD videos on an HDTV actually looks even better than on a monitor. My plan is to check the finished project on different TVs. It's music videos, so I should have a little room for error as long as it looks cool ;)

[SoundFreak]

No Hardware needed.

If you are referring to capturing the footage, understood.
Editing wise is a different story though, that is, if you want to see what you are really doing ......................

[RichR]

I do not need to capture the footage since I can import the AVI file to the project.

In editing, I can play them in realtime most of the time. The up-scaled 720p files however sometimes need to be quickly rendered but not ALL the time.
I'm not sure if realtime playing is what you're talking about?

[SoundFreak]

I do not need to capture the footage since I can import the AVI file to the project.

Capture was meant as ingestion of footage, e.g. capture / copy / drag N drop etc.
English is not my native tongue, sorry for that :)

I'm not sure if realtime playing is what you're talking about?

No, hardware, as in the current Canopus Hardware doesn't add at all to the realtime playback power of a system, it just allows you to see in realtime, full frame YUV signal, in stead of the miss leading RGB interpretation of you computer screen.

If you make the correct adjustments / apply filters you can see realtime on a CRT / LCD / Plasma TV monitor what actually is happening, while the LCD computer display still might / will show artifacts or not :)

In otherwords, when not using dedicated hardware to display the true video signal it will always be guess work ..........................

[Khoi Pham]

Why upscale? Blu-ray spec included 720P and it looks very very good, your blu-ray player or 1080P HDTV will do a much better job than Edius or Virtual dub, I don't know what authoring software you are using but Encore CS3 will take AVCHD files encoded from Edius after you demux it and won't reencoded.

[mattmatt]

This is a great question! And I've wondered it myself, not just with up-scaling, but also down-scaling. Any techies have an answer out there?

[SoundFreak]

As suggested, hardware up/down scaling is often very good or better than software, look how beautiful cam's do scaling when capturing SD from a HD source recording, software can't match this (most of the time)
Also how great does a BD player display your SD DVD's on a full HD LCD or Plasma TV .......................

[RichR]

No, hardware, as in the current Canopus Hardware doesn't add at all to the realtime playback power of a system, it just allows you to see in realtime, full frame YUV signal, in stead of the miss leading RGB interpretation of you computer screen.

If you make the correct adjustments / apply filters you can see realtime on a CRT / LCD / Plasma TV monitor what actually is happening, while the LCD computer display still might / will show artifacts or not :)

In otherwords, when not using dedicated hardware to display the true video signal it will always be guess work ..........................

Thanks for for clarifying things for me, Tony. I think I might have to stick with guessing until I can afford a hardware solution which I know will not be cheap.

Why upscale? Blu-ray spec included 720P and it looks very very good, your blu-ray player or 1080P HDTV will do a much better job than Edius or Virtual dub, I don't know what authoring software you are using but Encore CS3 will take AVCHD files encoded from Edius after you demux it and won't reencoded.

Hi Khoi, as I said in my first post, I already started the editing in 1080p (my first footage was 1080p) and just wanted to continue the same project but my new footage is in 720p. I did not understand your comment about Encore though.


I don't get why the Grass Valley guys are ignoring my questions? They seem to be replying in other threads.

[Khoi Pham]

Thanks for for clarifying things for me, Tony. I think I might have to stick with guessing until I can afford a hardware solution which I know will not be cheap.




Hi Khoi, as I said in my first post, I already started the editing in 1080p (my first footage was 1080p) and just wanted to continue the same project but my new footage is in 720p. I did not understand your comment about Encore though.


I don't get why the Grass Valley guys are ignoring my questions? They seem to be replying in other threads.

Sorry I wasn't clear, doesn't matter if you are editing on 1080P or not, just before you ready to render for Blu-ray, switch your project to 720P 60 and render it out.
Encore will accept the avchd files render from Edius after you demux it and will not reencode thus losing quality for rendering twice.

[RichR]

Sorry I wasn't clear, doesn't matter if you are editing on 1080P or not, just before you ready to render for Blu-ray, switch your project to 720P 60 and render it out.
Encore will accept the avchd files render from Edius after you demux it and will not reencode thus losing quality for rendering twice.

Ahh, ok...thanks. However, my footage is MJPEG and not AVCHD and they are at 24fps. Actually, the fact that I could not create a project at 720p24fps was a deciding factor for me to go to 1080p. Any thoughts?