Closed Captioning where is Line 21 ??

[richnation]

I am working with a TV station that does all my closed captioning after I print shows to tape. However we are experimenting with new software (CPC is the name i think). Anyway it's a process of them creating a black video file of the captioning that you can then place on your NLE's timeline and put the video over it and print to tape,dvd or whatever, with the captions on it.

Of course the problem is that they have to choose which NLE system you have and of course, in the United States Edius is virtually unknown to these people. They have all the other options as presents (AVID, Adobe, Final Cut, Media 100...) So for Edius it has to be entered manually.

What we need to know is: WHAT IS THE PRIMARY ROW USED FOR LINE 21. (yeah I know that sounds like a redundant question, but the options are 0-10)
We have tried 0 and didn't work. I'm hoping someone from Grass Valley will chime in on this and answer this technical question.

FYI. I already take DVCpro tapes with caption on them and capture them via firewire into Edius and Print them back out successfully with caption. The trick is you CANNOT add graphics, do an effect or DVE to the clip or it destroys the caption info. If we can get this new process to work, then I can have them caption once, and then print out various versions (HD, SD, DVD, etc).

I realize I probably just wasted my breath here. lol but ANY light that could be shed on this is great. Here in the U.S. Closed captioning is MANDATORY for Television and I cannot understand why no NLE software company has jumped all over this. Hey GRASS VALLEY !!! You wanna stomp AVID and FCP sales in the US?? then make and Edit system that does closed captioning!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!

[RonnieMartin]

I realize I probably just wasted my breath here. lol but ANY light that could be shed on this is great. Here in the U.S. Closed captioning is MANDATORY for Television and I cannot understand why no NLE software company has jumped all over this. Hey GRASS VALLEY !!! You wanna stomp AVID and FCP sales in the US?? then make and Edit system that does closed captioning!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!

Maybe not wasting your breath....

Last year I had a client that wanted the local phone numbers put into an infomercial that had captioning. The voice over was in Arabic and they wanted to keep the English captioning. There were several "Programs" that the client wanted to add the "800" toll free numbers added.

I still have a machine that I bought in the early 90's that has a Canopus Rex M1 card in it and it was running Rex Edit. Brandon told me to try and capture the tapes with the Old Rex machine and see if it would work.....
and it did. Since there was no heavy editing with the project just the addition of the new phone numbers I was able to get the job done.

So If you have a Rex M1 machine somewhere back in the closet drag it out and give it a try.

I keep mine right here in the edit suite and use it all the time......

BTW This machine saved my bacon on the first project I used it on back in the 90s. I bought it at B&H while on a trip to NY and had it shipped home.
I was hung up on a project that only had a 30 minute time line and every time I tried to "render" the project out to tape my computer would crash. It would take 6 hours to render a 30 minute time line. I was up against a dead line and really was frustrated. Within 30 minutes of plugging it in to the wall my project was completed. From that time forward to Edius 5.12 I have never looked back.....

Thanks Canopus/GrassValley

Hope this helps

Ronnie

[richnation]

Well what I have learned in the last 24hrs is that most of the problem lies with the DV formats ..and mainly with trying to pass captions through firewire.

Evidently, if I edit the show in 720 x 486 and install a capture card/breakout box or card that spits out analog composite, component or maybe even sdi then I'm being told that the closed caption will pass through to the tape...but will not with firewire, as I have found to be true.

What's weird is that I can take a show already closed captioned and capture it via firewire to Edius and it DOES keep the closed captioning as long as you do it in batch capture and print to tape (not manually).

[Blast1]

Anyway it's a process of them creating a black video file of the captioning that you can then place on your NLE's timeline and put the video over it and print to tape,dvd or whatever, with the captions on it.

I thought that if you were going to put CC on a DV tape you added the CC data to the AUX area of the dv tape field not line 21, also you need a deck that will pass the AUX data out.
CPC = Computer Prompting and Captioning http://www.cpcweb.com/
You might want to check their website and figure out what type of their software you are trying to use, they also have a bunch of tutorials available

[GrassValley_BH]

Blast1 is correct - there is a place for the CC data to go in the DV stream (even though DV takes the visible raster only). However, the great majority of applications that deal with DV do not pass, insert, or deal with the CC subcode and therefore it gets lost in the process.

Not all DV playback devices will decode the CC subcode back to line 21 on analog output either.

AFAIK, the Sony DVMC-DA1 converter and VX2000 camcorder play and record CC data in the correct spot in the DV stream.

A similar issue occurs with MPEG-2, as MPEG-2 also has a place for the CC data, but it's not in the actual encoded image area.

[pjsssss]

Brandon do you know if we have a DV 4:3 clip and apply the video Layout preset of Fit to Width for 16:9, will that override (as in shove it out of the viewable area) the CC line for broadcast ?

[GrassValley_BH]

Anything more than cuts (ie, anything that will disable smart rendering) will re-render the DV and therefore lose the CC data.

It doesn't have anything to do with the CC line moving out of the frame - the CC data isn't in the video raster for DV (or MPEG-2). It's the re-rendering that subsequently loses the embedded CC data.