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  • HDStorm export to tape only thru OHCI ?!

    Here we go. . .I've upgraded with edius/canopus since rex rt. 8 sytems or so. . .
    last solid system was with an SP card. (perfect for years)! ready to upgrade to E5 spend some cash with edius as a loyal fan would. Now I jumped to E5 on an 8 core with HDstorm Plus ???
    Why in the world do you have to go into OHCI project settings to export a timeline to tape? (and lose the live outputs on the HDstorm box?)

    I want what I had with SP, Realtime outputs live all the time? I am trying to move forward and up. not backwards!
    Andrew Fogell www.videounlimited.net

  • #2
    The Edius SP-SDI may have been a better choice as it supports AV/C to RS-422 deck control for all the outputs. HD Storm only supports deck control via OHCI Firewire. The newer SP-SDI is of the newer PCI-e architecture and should be able to be swapped out where you have the HD Storm located now. You will also need an available PCI 2.2 slot and an open expansion slot on the back of the chassis. HD/SD Component outputs, SDI and RS-422 would be your print to tape methods as well as your reference monitor outputs.

    This newer SP board is the step forward for current SP users though it does not have HDMI output. H-m-m..I wonder if an HD Spark board could coexist with an SP-SDI boardset. Then the output device would just be selectable.
    George Dame
    Grass Valley / Canopus System Integrator - Nearly 13 Years
    Providing Systems, Onsite Delivery, Support & Training Services Nationwide
    Get Your Copy of The Edius 6 Comprehensive Tutorial by contacting me via PM, email or phone
    Invite us to your local video association for a full demonstration!
    www.editHD.com - 1-877-ieditDV

    Comment


    • #3
      I have to agree with Andrew on this one. That was a bit of a disappointment for me with the HD Storm, although the rest of the features are very good, especially with the breakout bay. I don't think it would be too hard for GV to implement drivers that would print to tape via firewire while still showing output to a monitor

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by plasma_video View Post
        although the rest of the features are very good, especially with the breakout bay.
        What did you gain (except HDMI) compared to the NX set ?

        Comment


        • #5
          The gain, was a more powerful 8 core system to take advantage of E5. I have tried E5 on my SP system but it dogged the timelene. The gain of HDMI was not my reason for the upgrade. I would prefer monitoring through component and pro audio (xlr's). HDstorm plus looked like it was a reasonable $$$ upgrade?

          And thanks for the input George. . .I think your right on the SP-SDI, Just a chunk of cash to get me back to what I had + new horspower for E5. . .out of my budget at this point.

          The fact that edius has ripped the onboard firewire port off the (SP, Rex RT pro, old storm, along with live outs) and now relies on OHCI fire ports opens the door to 3rd party boards / components to now touch/handle some of the processing. seems like a bad move and the opportunity for files (video/audio) to be compromised.
          Andrew Fogell www.videounlimited.net

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by gdame View Post
            The Edius SP-SDI may have been a better choice as it supports AV/C to RS-422 deck control for all the outputs. HD Storm only supports deck control via OHCI Firewire. The newer SP-SDI is of the newer PCI-e architecture and should be able to be swapped out where you have the HD Storm located now. You will also need an available PCI 2.2 slot and an open expansion slot on the back of the chassis. HD/SD Component outputs, SDI and RS-422 would be your print to tape methods as well as your reference monitor outputs.

            This newer SP board is the step forward for current SP users though it does not have HDMI output. H-m-m..I wonder if an HD Spark board could coexist with an SP-SDI boardset. Then the output device would just be selectable.
            George,
            I have read many comments from NX/HD Storm owners. The consensus is
            that they could not see a difference between the analog output and the HDMI output while doing a project.
            I still say, newer isn't always better.
            Pat might want to chime in on that one...not on the computer but on the output. I know the new computer is better.
            Last edited by Jerry; 08-30-2009, 01:38 PM.
            Jerry
            Six Gill DV
            www.sgdvtutorials.com
            If you own the Tutorials and you need help, PM me.

            Vistitle YouTube Channel
            https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMVlxC8Am4qFbkXJRoPAnMQ/videos

            Windows 10 Pro up to v.1803 Tweaks for Edius Users
            http://sgdvtutorials.com/WIN%2010%20...%20V.2.0.0.pdf


            Main System:: Azrock Z97 Extreme 6, [email protected], 32gb ram, NZXT Z63, Win10 Pro 64, Samsung 850 pro, E7.5/8.5/E9 on separate SSD drives, 2TB Sabrent M.2 NVME, BM MINI MONITOR 4K, 12tb RAID 0 on backplane ,2 BD, Dual LG 27GK65S-B 144Hz monitors, GTX 1080ti SC Black.
            Second System: EditHD Ultimax-i7, X58, [email protected], Corsair H80, Win764, 24gb ram, Storm 3g, Samsung 840 Pro 256, 4tb and 6tb RAID 0 on backplane, GTX 980ti Classified, Edius 9, Apple 30", Samsung 24", dual BD.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Jerry View Post
              I still say, newer isn't always better.
              NX = HD capture full preview on output.
              HDstorm = HD capture NO preview output.
              New & Improved :)

              Comment


              • #8
                Jerry, I absolutely agree with you. I can not see a difference in output quality via HDMI & Component when sent to an HDTV (not a 16:10 computer monitor). I do like the simplicity of getting a reference signal with audio via HDMI though :)

                Here is my take on the GV hardware lineup.

                A feature that the NX & SP had that the HD Storm/HD Storm Plus does not have is the ADVC feature that acted like one of GV's bidirectional ADVC converters. While this was for SD only, it was still a nice feature that many DVRex, DVRex RT, DVRex RT Pro, DV Storm & SP PCI-X users took for granted as the way it will always be. This feature required a chip (aka Sony DV-BK1 or equivilent) in order to work. This is what was referred to as the hardware codec on these boards. It was a bi-directional processor that relieved the CPU of the encoding AND decoding task and provided that smooth and responsive feel that Canopus editors loved.

                The new codec of choice for HD in Edius is GV's HQ codec. This is a software codec that DOES use the CPU for decoding during playback and only on the HDStorm Plus & Pegusus boards provides a hardware encoding processor chip for ingest (only) via the onboard analog inputs. This is great for slower systems that may have a problem ingesting long HD/HDV mpeg streams via firewire, do to the fact that the CPU could not keep up with the encoding process.

                The HD Storm Plus is a product that I see as for someone that is going to use it as they would an HD-Spark 99% of the time and have the convenience of capturing analog SD & HD material on an infrequent basis. I would not want a bunch of cables hanging out of the front of my workstation permanently for this purpose.

                For those that need this funcionality on a regular basis, the SP, SP-SDI and better yet, the ultimate Edius HD solution, a system based on the HDBX1000 multi I/O processor would be the preferred choices. These all provide the ability to have a professional external breakout box with analog I/O's, XLR audio I/O's, Digital I/O's and RS-422 VTR control.

                With over 20 systems sold in the past 90 days, I have only built two with HDStorm Plus (one for our own Pat Sipes aka pjssss). All the others were with HD Spark. A couple of systems were also built to upgrade my current NX (PCIe) customers with higher performance systems.

                While editing SD in an HD Spark based system does behave differently than past products, it has not stopped my clients from doing both. Every one of my customers still own a DV/DVCam deck of some sort and connect it to the system via OHCI firewire. When in this mode, the deck acts as an ADVC converter and provides analog audio and video output of the timeline, although it will also suffer that millisecond delay. Those that edit to audio cues will be frustrated with monitoring the synchronized audio/video output via this method. It would be better to use the Edius onscreen software monitor for this type of editing and then going back to the external OHCI monitoring for color correction etc. If that is not acceptable, then a system based on NX, SP-SDI or HDBX1000 is your only choice.

                The NX PCIe product with it's HD/SD component output module (NX Express) is a great product that provides the SD/HD user a better SD experience at an affordable price point. It does allow SD & HD BNC component output via connectors on the back of the workstation, keeping the front of the computer clean and uncluttered of cables and fragile connectors. NX's only analog input is s-video or composite video (via an adapter) on the back of the NX card. It's only obstacle was for the integrator that is trying to utilize the limited number of available slots on the motherboard, since it is a dual card product that requires two PCIe x1 slots. With raid controllers, dual space graphics cards, Fire Coder Blu cards, etc. This could became an integration challenge with certain motherboards and chassis. The NX/NX Express also supports a live external reference output during capture which is lacking on the HD Storm and HD Spark boards. Many find this as a disappointment with these newer designed cards.

                All in all, the current GV line up of hardware choices for use with Edius 5 and Vista 64 bit is quite amazing. We are able to offer complete turnkey HD editing systems that can be had from about $3000. on up to $30,000. with many, many steps in-between. Only a few years ago, spending $10,000. to $15,000 and more for a state of the art editing system was acceptable and the norm for high end production facilities. That has not changed, only that you get so much more for your money now-a-days.

                For those that are in a fully HD/HDV digital and solid state workflow, the bang for the money is quite impressive. Shoot on tiny reusable media, ingest only the clips you need much faster than realtime, edit in Edius 5 faster than any other NLE on the planet and then encode and burn directly to Blu-Ray disc right from the timeline! Deliver your product in SD on DVD in almost the same ease (some HD to SD downconversion requires additional steps to ensure the very best image quality). For those that fit this profile, The HD Spark is the most affordable GV hardware/software bundle available.

                It's not easy making these decisions based on your own research of marketing materials, spec sheets and literature, which is why my policy is to educate my customer so that they are able to make the best educated decision that fits their needs and budget. Anyone that has consulted with me will attest to this as fact!
                George Dame
                Grass Valley / Canopus System Integrator - Nearly 13 Years
                Providing Systems, Onsite Delivery, Support & Training Services Nationwide
                Get Your Copy of The Edius 6 Comprehensive Tutorial by contacting me via PM, email or phone
                Invite us to your local video association for a full demonstration!
                www.editHD.com - 1-877-ieditDV

                Comment


                • #9
                  Well, I cannot give you a complete answer as to why I went with the HD Storm over NX other than I got a great price on the HD Storm and Edius 5 with a special promotional upgrade offer as a current Storm user. The HDMI I/O intrigued me as a look towards the future. Frankly, I may have thought differently about the NX if I had done some more research. I actually made the decision fairly quickly before the upgrade offer expired. I was not planning on upgrading at all, but just before the offer expired, a quad core computer was literally dropped in my lap, and I saw the opportunity to get into HD editing at that point.

                  Overall I'm pleased. I like the hardware HQ encoding, and my present setup is quite adequate for most of what I do. I plan on doing a lot of digitizing of analog tape in future projects, so the analog I/O was a necessity.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by plasma_video View Post
                    Well, I cannot give you a complete answer as to why I went with the HD Storm over NX other than I got a great price on the HD Storm and Edius 5 with a special promotional upgrade offer as a current Storm user. The HDMI I/O intrigued me as a look towards the future. Frankly, I may have thought differently about the NX if I had done some more research. I actually made the decision fairly quickly before the upgrade offer expired. I was not planning on upgrading at all, but just before the offer expired, a quad core computer was literally dropped in my lap, and I saw the opportunity to get into HD editing at that point.

                    Overall I'm pleased. I like the hardware HQ encoding, and my present setup is quite adequate for most of what I do. I plan on doing a lot of digitizing of analog tape in future projects, so the analog I/O was a necessity.
                    The one thing I do wish the NX had was the ability to capture uncompressed
                    HD through the analog ports. I do that with my Intensity Pro. When using the MJPEG codec within Edius, it performs pretty much the same as HQ on my system.
                    Jerry
                    Six Gill DV
                    www.sgdvtutorials.com
                    If you own the Tutorials and you need help, PM me.

                    Vistitle YouTube Channel
                    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMVlxC8Am4qFbkXJRoPAnMQ/videos

                    Windows 10 Pro up to v.1803 Tweaks for Edius Users
                    http://sgdvtutorials.com/WIN%2010%20...%20V.2.0.0.pdf


                    Main System:: Azrock Z97 Extreme 6, [email protected], 32gb ram, NZXT Z63, Win10 Pro 64, Samsung 850 pro, E7.5/8.5/E9 on separate SSD drives, 2TB Sabrent M.2 NVME, BM MINI MONITOR 4K, 12tb RAID 0 on backplane ,2 BD, Dual LG 27GK65S-B 144Hz monitors, GTX 1080ti SC Black.
                    Second System: EditHD Ultimax-i7, X58, [email protected], Corsair H80, Win764, 24gb ram, Storm 3g, Samsung 840 Pro 256, 4tb and 6tb RAID 0 on backplane, GTX 980ti Classified, Edius 9, Apple 30", Samsung 24", dual BD.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Jerry View Post
                      The one thing I do wish the NX had was the ability to capture uncompressed
                      This puts the general work (for uncompressed) in a different league than Edius was intended for, me thinks :)

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Jerry View Post
                        The one thing I do wish the NX had was the ability to capture uncompressed
                        HD through the analog ports. I do that with my Intensity Pro. When using the MJPEG codec within Edius, it performs pretty much the same as HQ on my system.
                        Jerry are you saying that the uncompressed HD MJPEG files look that much better than HQ in super fine mode?
                        George Dame
                        Grass Valley / Canopus System Integrator - Nearly 13 Years
                        Providing Systems, Onsite Delivery, Support & Training Services Nationwide
                        Get Your Copy of The Edius 6 Comprehensive Tutorial by contacting me via PM, email or phone
                        Invite us to your local video association for a full demonstration!
                        www.editHD.com - 1-877-ieditDV

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by gdame View Post
                          Jerry are you saying that the uncompressed HD MJPEG files look that much better than HQ in super fine mode?
                          When I capture firewire 1440x1080HQ vs 1920x1080 MJPEG*/ uncompressed the look is pretty much the same and it performs the same under a 1920x108 project setting (*MJPEG only on performance). Since the NX only will do compressed HD capture, I can not give an exact example. Both the MJPEG and uncompressed capture is 1920x1080.
                          As far as uncompressed through Intensity Pro, it does not have a banding issue, at least on my system, that HQ has with gradient images.
                          Big plus if you are doing underwater footage.

                          One plus that I do get with analog capture is the rough edges created by
                          digital harshness are greatly reduced and illiminated in some areas all together.
                          As I stated in other posts, I prefer to work in square pixels as opposed to having to worry about aspect ratios. The analog capture gives me square pixel and the firewire gives me 1.33.

                          Granted it is an extra step for me, because I have to import from another machine. However, the resulting images are clean, easy to edit, and if I have to convert from uncompressed to HQ it is pretty easy to do. It is all about options to me.
                          Jerry
                          Six Gill DV
                          www.sgdvtutorials.com
                          If you own the Tutorials and you need help, PM me.

                          Vistitle YouTube Channel
                          https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMVlxC8Am4qFbkXJRoPAnMQ/videos

                          Windows 10 Pro up to v.1803 Tweaks for Edius Users
                          http://sgdvtutorials.com/WIN%2010%20...%20V.2.0.0.pdf


                          Main System:: Azrock Z97 Extreme 6, [email protected], 32gb ram, NZXT Z63, Win10 Pro 64, Samsung 850 pro, E7.5/8.5/E9 on separate SSD drives, 2TB Sabrent M.2 NVME, BM MINI MONITOR 4K, 12tb RAID 0 on backplane ,2 BD, Dual LG 27GK65S-B 144Hz monitors, GTX 1080ti SC Black.
                          Second System: EditHD Ultimax-i7, X58, [email protected], Corsair H80, Win764, 24gb ram, Storm 3g, Samsung 840 Pro 256, 4tb and 6tb RAID 0 on backplane, GTX 980ti Classified, Edius 9, Apple 30", Samsung 24", dual BD.

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