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  • Still Image Visual Shift

    This was discussed a bit on the old forum but I don't recall any resolution.

    I frequently use the Still Image Exporter to generate a still off the timeline and then place that still abutting the video clip(s) that it was generated from. It is very easy to tell that the TGA still I generate does not precisely match the video clip.

    Let's say the video clip has a Color Correction applied. When I generate the still, I leave the CC turned on and so, in theory, the new still has that CC applied to it. But when it's then placed on the timeline next to the video clip, it doesn't match... exactly.

    I then tried turning the CC off on the video clip and generating the still and it doesn't match either.

    Is there any way to get a perfectly matching still? Is one format better than another for matching (I prefer TGAs). I'm guessing that the reason it doesn't match is that the video clip is YUV and the still is RGB.

    Thanks!
    Sincerely,

    Mike Truly
    ----------------------------------------------------------------
    Truly Media
    970.349.5651
    www.trulymedia.com

    System1: Edius 7.41|Storm Mobile|Dual Xeon 3.1 (20 cores w HT OFF)|128GB RAM|Dual 512 SSDs|7TB RAID5|Dual Quadro5000s|Win7_64

    System2: EdiusNX+Exp|Edius 6.03|Procoder3|XP32|Dual Xeon 3.6|4GB RAM|U320 RAID0 15K

  • #2
    Hi Mike,

    I use this technique a lot to close every wedding video I do, and I get a perfect match.

    Don't know if it matters, but I use .bmps and in advanced settings it's set on odd field and motion only filtering.

    Cheers Vaughan
    Main Edit System ASUS Z170-Pro, 6700K, 32 gig ram HD Spark, Windows 7 64bit Edius 8.1 (Edit Machine)
    2nd System Intel DZ77BH, 3770K, 16 GB ram, Edius 8.1 (ingest and authoring)
    3rd system (internet & Printing station)

    Comment


    • #3
      what change do you notice on waveform/vector?

      different black level?
      different white level?
      different color saturation?
      Anton Strauss
      Antons Video Productions - Sydney

      EDIUS X WG with BM Mini Monitor 4k and BM Mini Recorder, Gigabyte X299 UD4 Pro, Intel Core i9 9960X 16 Core, 32 Threads @ 4.3Ghz, Corsair Water Cooling, Gigabyte RTX-2070 Super 3X 8GB Video Card, Samsung 860 Pro 512GB SSD for System, 8TB Samsung Raid0 SSD for Video, 2 Pioneer BDR-209 Blu-ray/DVD burners, Hotswap Bay for 3.5" Sata and 2.5" SSD, Phanteks Enthoo Pro XL Tower, Corsair 32GB DDR4 Ram, Win10 Pro

      Comment


      • #4
        Hi,

        did you try Topaz Moment? It's incredible and exceeds all my expectations on stillimages.

        Uli

        Comment


        • #5
          Anton,

          It appears, all of the above. I've attached two screengrabs of the WV. One showing the last frame of the video clip and the other showing the resulting TGA made from that last frame. There is a definite shift in all values between the two. (It may be hard to see when looking at the two images but is easy to see when stepping between frames... both in the preview and WV).

          I also have a two frame HQ 1280x720 video clip that shows the problem. The first frame is the last frame of the video clip (with a single ColorWheel CC applied) and the second frame is the still.

          http://www.trulymedia.com/issues/ima...video_clip.zip

          Thanks!
          Attached Files
          Sincerely,

          Mike Truly
          ----------------------------------------------------------------
          Truly Media
          970.349.5651
          www.trulymedia.com

          System1: Edius 7.41|Storm Mobile|Dual Xeon 3.1 (20 cores w HT OFF)|128GB RAM|Dual 512 SSDs|7TB RAID5|Dual Quadro5000s|Win7_64

          System2: EdiusNX+Exp|Edius 6.03|Procoder3|XP32|Dual Xeon 3.6|4GB RAM|U320 RAID0 15K

          Comment


          • #6
            Uli,

            Thanks for the ideas. The Topaz Moment looks very interesting but I'm not sure how this fits into the Edius workflow. Since I will frequently be wanting to create a still that not only contains the video but also the effect applied to the video on the Edius timeline (such as CC) that I would need to render out a single frame HQ file (with CC) from the timeline, then use Topaz Moment to capture that one frame from the video, save as TGA, then import that TGA into Edius and drop on the timeline. Is this how you use it with Edius?

            Also, the sample images shown look like they are greatly improved from the originals. While this is nice... I want the image I get to exactly match the HQ clip (warts and all) so I can use it on the timeline next to the HQ clip and have it match precisely. That software looks like it will make it look better, and different.

            Thanks!
            Sincerely,

            Mike Truly
            ----------------------------------------------------------------
            Truly Media
            970.349.5651
            www.trulymedia.com

            System1: Edius 7.41|Storm Mobile|Dual Xeon 3.1 (20 cores w HT OFF)|128GB RAM|Dual 512 SSDs|7TB RAID5|Dual Quadro5000s|Win7_64

            System2: EdiusNX+Exp|Edius 6.03|Procoder3|XP32|Dual Xeon 3.6|4GB RAM|U320 RAID0 15K

            Comment


            • #7
              Hi Mike

              I see your problem with the avi you provided, must be an NTSC issue

              to overcome, try this:

              mark in and out of the frame you want to be a still and choose print to file, choose Canopus HQ AVI

              now place the 1 frame avi on timeline and apply speed change 1%, then copy/paste this clip as many times you need
              Anton Strauss
              Antons Video Productions - Sydney

              EDIUS X WG with BM Mini Monitor 4k and BM Mini Recorder, Gigabyte X299 UD4 Pro, Intel Core i9 9960X 16 Core, 32 Threads @ 4.3Ghz, Corsair Water Cooling, Gigabyte RTX-2070 Super 3X 8GB Video Card, Samsung 860 Pro 512GB SSD for System, 8TB Samsung Raid0 SSD for Video, 2 Pioneer BDR-209 Blu-ray/DVD burners, Hotswap Bay for 3.5" Sata and 2.5" SSD, Phanteks Enthoo Pro XL Tower, Corsair 32GB DDR4 Ram, Win10 Pro

              Comment


              • #8
                Hi Mike,

                I think Antons solution fits your needs the best. Until now I uses Topaz Moments to get Stillimages from Clips. Quality is much better than producing images by Ctrl+T in Edius.

                Uli

                Comment


                • #9
                  Anton,

                  I will try this... thanks!
                  Sincerely,

                  Mike Truly
                  ----------------------------------------------------------------
                  Truly Media
                  970.349.5651
                  www.trulymedia.com

                  System1: Edius 7.41|Storm Mobile|Dual Xeon 3.1 (20 cores w HT OFF)|128GB RAM|Dual 512 SSDs|7TB RAID5|Dual Quadro5000s|Win7_64

                  System2: EdiusNX+Exp|Edius 6.03|Procoder3|XP32|Dual Xeon 3.6|4GB RAM|U320 RAID0 15K

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Uli,

                    I will try Anton's idea. But I notice in the helpfile for the Topaz Moment software that there is a switch to just do a 'Raw Capture'... no enhancement. This might provide a matching still frame as well.

                    But I'm wondering if this difference problem is somehow related to the fact that HQ files are YUV and that the still image is RGB. In which case, the still will always be different. I will have to do some experiments.

                    Thanks!
                    Sincerely,

                    Mike Truly
                    ----------------------------------------------------------------
                    Truly Media
                    970.349.5651
                    www.trulymedia.com

                    System1: Edius 7.41|Storm Mobile|Dual Xeon 3.1 (20 cores w HT OFF)|128GB RAM|Dual 512 SSDs|7TB RAID5|Dual Quadro5000s|Win7_64

                    System2: EdiusNX+Exp|Edius 6.03|Procoder3|XP32|Dual Xeon 3.6|4GB RAM|U320 RAID0 15K

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Scuze me while I beat this dead horse.

                      I really would like the Still export from Edius to be fixed (or at least improved) to correct this problem. Yes, the 'make an HQ AVI instead of a still' method works... but it's a huge hassle compared to making a still that works in the first place.

                      When I make a still (such as a TGA or other bitmap), I want it to match the video frame from which it came precisely. That means no brightness shift, etc.

                      I suspect this is being caused during the translation from a YUV format (which I think the HQ file is) to an RGB format. If it can't make a precise duplicate of the video frame, it should at least try to make some internal comparisons between the two images to make the still match the video better or give the user the option to use this modification.

                      Right now, I am creating TGA stills from HQs on the timeline and there is a large shift in brightness when passing over the cut point which makes these stills unuseable.

                      Thanks!
                      Sincerely,

                      Mike Truly
                      ----------------------------------------------------------------
                      Truly Media
                      970.349.5651
                      www.trulymedia.com

                      System1: Edius 7.41|Storm Mobile|Dual Xeon 3.1 (20 cores w HT OFF)|128GB RAM|Dual 512 SSDs|7TB RAID5|Dual Quadro5000s|Win7_64

                      System2: EdiusNX+Exp|Edius 6.03|Procoder3|XP32|Dual Xeon 3.6|4GB RAM|U320 RAID0 15K

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        One thing I think I may have noticed may be a bug of some kind.

                        Originally on my current project, I set this project up as SD 4x3. In this project, I created TGA stills from the HQs on the timeline and they matched perfectly... no brightness shift when the resulting stills were placed on the timeline next to the original HQ clips.

                        Then I created an HD 720p project by changing the settings of the original project and started to replace all the clips with the HD versions. It was at this point that I started to make HD TGA stills to replace the SD stills. These new HD stills have the visual brightness shift.

                        SD version of project: no brightness shift in TGA stills.
                        HD version of project: noticable brightness shift in TGA stills.

                        Then I just now realized that the previous project problem that started this thread a number of weeks ago, was also a 720p project.

                        I could be wrong but it seems like there is a pattern here having to do with the 720p project generating brightness shifted stills.

                        Thanks!
                        Sincerely,

                        Mike Truly
                        ----------------------------------------------------------------
                        Truly Media
                        970.349.5651
                        www.trulymedia.com

                        System1: Edius 7.41|Storm Mobile|Dual Xeon 3.1 (20 cores w HT OFF)|128GB RAM|Dual 512 SSDs|7TB RAID5|Dual Quadro5000s|Win7_64

                        System2: EdiusNX+Exp|Edius 6.03|Procoder3|XP32|Dual Xeon 3.6|4GB RAM|U320 RAID0 15K

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          you can do it without export to avi as well

                          simply place cursor to frame that you wish to freeze and press C to cut, advance cursor one frame and press C again, now apply Alt+E 1%
                          Anton Strauss
                          Antons Video Productions - Sydney

                          EDIUS X WG with BM Mini Monitor 4k and BM Mini Recorder, Gigabyte X299 UD4 Pro, Intel Core i9 9960X 16 Core, 32 Threads @ 4.3Ghz, Corsair Water Cooling, Gigabyte RTX-2070 Super 3X 8GB Video Card, Samsung 860 Pro 512GB SSD for System, 8TB Samsung Raid0 SSD for Video, 2 Pioneer BDR-209 Blu-ray/DVD burners, Hotswap Bay for 3.5" Sata and 2.5" SSD, Phanteks Enthoo Pro XL Tower, Corsair 32GB DDR4 Ram, Win10 Pro

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Mike Truly View Post
                            Uli,


                            But I'm wondering if this difference problem is somehow related to the fact that HQ files are YUV and that the still image is RGB. In which case, the still will always be different. I will have to do some experiments.

                            Thanks!
                            My bet is you are dead on it. You will also see color differences when you go from a still to an .avi using Imaginate. If you look in photoshop it now offers HDTV 709 as a color space you can convert a still to...and the difference is very noticable. Try converting the still to that colorspace in PS then see how it looks next to the clip.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Anton,

                              Thanks... I will give this method a try. What is the second cut for? Oh, I think I get it... the second cut is if the desired frame is in the middle of other frames?

                              In my case, most of the stills are either the beginning or end of the clip so I think I only need one cut.

                              Thanks again.
                              Sincerely,

                              Mike Truly
                              ----------------------------------------------------------------
                              Truly Media
                              970.349.5651
                              www.trulymedia.com

                              System1: Edius 7.41|Storm Mobile|Dual Xeon 3.1 (20 cores w HT OFF)|128GB RAM|Dual 512 SSDs|7TB RAID5|Dual Quadro5000s|Win7_64

                              System2: EdiusNX+Exp|Edius 6.03|Procoder3|XP32|Dual Xeon 3.6|4GB RAM|U320 RAID0 15K

                              Comment

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