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  • Blu Ray Disk-which produces a better result?

    Over the last few days I have been attempting to produce a Blu Ray disk. My clips are all HDV (1440x1080i PAL) and HD (1920x1080i PAL). I only have Edius, Movie Factory and Nero 8 to basically work with. First results were less than satisfactory using the Burn to Disk option in EDius, the maximum allowed bit rate was far too low. I finally used the Edius Exporter to produce an Mpeg file with an average bit rate of 35M and a maximum of 50M (probably a bit high) file. This was then used in Nero 8 Vision to Author and to produce a disk with NO artifacts that looked good.

    My question: I used the Exporter to also make a Lossless AVI file (huge) and the above mentioned MPEG file. Using Nero, is there any advantage in loading the very large AVI file to Author or do I stick with the very much smaller MPEG file to produce the best quality final Blu Ray disk?
    i7 3930K, Win 10 pro 64 Bit.
    RAM 32 GB.
    ASUS P9X79-Deluxe.
    PS Thermaltake 1kW.
    Graphics Gigabyte GTX1660 OC.
    OS:Intel 535 SSD 480 GB, Data: two 2TB WD Cavier Black, RAID 0.
    Cameras: Sony EX1, AX100, x1000v, A7R4, DJI Mavic 2 Pro
    SW: Edius v8.53 WG & 9.52 WG, Vegas 17 Pro, CS6, Resolve Studio 16, Hitfilm 2017, Sound Forge 13, SpectraLayers Pro v6.0, Neat Video v5, Vistitle 2.8.5 TMPEnc VMWorks 7, Auth. Works 6, MochaPro v4.1, Robuskey, DVD Architect 7, 3D LUT Creator.

  • #2
    Disk burner uses H264, so 20mbits/sec would be plenty good
    Anton Strauss
    Antons Video Productions - Sydney

    EDIUS X WG with BM Mini Monitor 4k and BM Mini Recorder, Gigabyte X299 UD4 Pro, Intel Core i9 9960X 16 Core, 32 Threads @ 4.3Ghz, Corsair Water Cooling, Gigabyte RTX-2070 Super 3X 8GB Video Card, Samsung 860 Pro 512GB SSD for System, 8TB Samsung Raid0 SSD for Video, 2 Pioneer BDR-209 Blu-ray/DVD burners, Hotswap Bay for 3.5" Sata and 2.5" SSD, Phanteks Enthoo Pro XL Tower, Corsair 32GB DDR4 Ram, Win10 Pro 21H2

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    • #3
      Have to disagree with you a little Anton. H264 maxes out in EDIUS or FireCoder at 23Mb/s or somewhere around that mark, which is pretty good for most videos- but it is not enough for every situation or to satisfy my desires. Why is it that Grass Valley can't give us proper H264 with profile 4.1 and bit rates up to 40Mb/s for Blu-ray?

      I note that I have seen some hollywood movies on Blu-ray use h264 with bitrates up to 35Mb/s. Is that a waste or are they getting better results with those bitrates? Who's to know, we aren't privy enough to use specs like that with EDIUS/FireCoder Blu.

      Harro. I wouldn't bother with making the big AVi and using Nero to encode- If H264 from EDIUS isn't enough then try high bitrate Mpeg2 from EDIUS, will be better.
      also, note that your 50Mb/s video that you did is over the specs allowed- it's 40Mb/s max for video.

      Cheers
      AMD Ryzen 9 5950X, RTX 3080, 64GB RAM, EDIUS X WG.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by shueardm View Post
        I note that I have seen some hollywood movies on Blu-ray use h264 with bitrates up to 35Mb/s.
        Cheers
        hollywood Blu-ray are pressed

        in our case, we are talking about burning, so lower bitrates will play back on more players than too high bitrate, the same applies to DVD, I never go above 7.7 but technically I could go to 9.8
        Anton Strauss
        Antons Video Productions - Sydney

        EDIUS X WG with BM Mini Monitor 4k and BM Mini Recorder, Gigabyte X299 UD4 Pro, Intel Core i9 9960X 16 Core, 32 Threads @ 4.3Ghz, Corsair Water Cooling, Gigabyte RTX-2070 Super 3X 8GB Video Card, Samsung 860 Pro 512GB SSD for System, 8TB Samsung Raid0 SSD for Video, 2 Pioneer BDR-209 Blu-ray/DVD burners, Hotswap Bay for 3.5" Sata and 2.5" SSD, Phanteks Enthoo Pro XL Tower, Corsair 32GB DDR4 Ram, Win10 Pro 21H2

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        • #5
          Agreed- but there's so much head room on BD available- we are still being offered inferior encoding with H264 in GV products.
          AMD Ryzen 9 5950X, RTX 3080, 64GB RAM, EDIUS X WG.

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          • #6
            I wonder why the limit then? Let me ask
            Anton Strauss
            Antons Video Productions - Sydney

            EDIUS X WG with BM Mini Monitor 4k and BM Mini Recorder, Gigabyte X299 UD4 Pro, Intel Core i9 9960X 16 Core, 32 Threads @ 4.3Ghz, Corsair Water Cooling, Gigabyte RTX-2070 Super 3X 8GB Video Card, Samsung 860 Pro 512GB SSD for System, 8TB Samsung Raid0 SSD for Video, 2 Pioneer BDR-209 Blu-ray/DVD burners, Hotswap Bay for 3.5" Sata and 2.5" SSD, Phanteks Enthoo Pro XL Tower, Corsair 32GB DDR4 Ram, Win10 Pro 21H2

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            • #7
              Thanks Anton and Shueardm for your replys. The video that I made was of Bluegrass bands performing, not very much rapid movement there. Using the Edius burn to disk at its maximum for Blu Ray produced many artifacts and even stopped play at times when (I guess) it choked. The playback was through a brand new Panasonic Blu Ray player into a Panasonic 106 cm Plasma. The 2 pass VBR made from the exported Mpeg mentioned earlier played perfectly with NO artifacts or hic-ups at any time.
              I will use the Exporter again to produce another Mpeg, this time limiting the maximum bit rate to 40Mbps as Shueardm suggested and get rid of the huge AVI file!.
              Thanks once again for your replys.
              i7 3930K, Win 10 pro 64 Bit.
              RAM 32 GB.
              ASUS P9X79-Deluxe.
              PS Thermaltake 1kW.
              Graphics Gigabyte GTX1660 OC.
              OS:Intel 535 SSD 480 GB, Data: two 2TB WD Cavier Black, RAID 0.
              Cameras: Sony EX1, AX100, x1000v, A7R4, DJI Mavic 2 Pro
              SW: Edius v8.53 WG & 9.52 WG, Vegas 17 Pro, CS6, Resolve Studio 16, Hitfilm 2017, Sound Forge 13, SpectraLayers Pro v6.0, Neat Video v5, Vistitle 2.8.5 TMPEnc VMWorks 7, Auth. Works 6, MochaPro v4.1, Robuskey, DVD Architect 7, 3D LUT Creator.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Harro View Post
                Thanks Anton and Shueardm for your replys. The video that I made was of Bluegrass bands performing, not very much rapid movement there. Using the Edius burn to disk at its maximum for Blu Ray produced many artifacts and even stopped play at times when (I guess) it choked. The playback was through a brand new Panasonic Blu Ray player into a Panasonic 106 cm Plasma. The 2 pass VBR made from the exported Mpeg mentioned earlier played perfectly with NO artifacts or hic-ups at any time.
                I will use the Exporter again to produce another Mpeg, this time limiting the maximum bit rate to 40Mbps as Shueardm suggested and get rid of the huge AVI file!.
                Thanks once again for your replys.
                They have Bluegrass in Australia? As a Kentucky boy that shocks me and makes me smile at the same time. :-)

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by shueardm View Post
                  Have to disagree with you a little Anton. H264 maxes out in EDIUS or FireCoder at 23Mb/s or somewhere around that mark, which is pretty good for most videos- but it is not enough for every situation or to satisfy my desires. Why is it that Grass Valley can't give us proper H264 with profile 4.1 and bit rates up to 40Mb/s for Blu-ray?

                  I note that I have seen some hollywood movies on Blu-ray use h264 with bitrates up to 35Mb/s. Is that a waste or are they getting better results with those bitrates? Who's to know, we aren't privy enough to use specs like that with EDIUS/FireCoder Blu.

                  Harro. I wouldn't bother with making the big AVi and using Nero to encode- If H264 from EDIUS isn't enough then try high bitrate Mpeg2 from EDIUS, will be better.
                  also, note that your 50Mb/s video that you did is over the specs allowed- it's 40Mb/s max for video.

                  Cheers
                  I am pretty sure that more than 23mbps will be allowed in the future in EDIUS.

                  Also we can't compare our encodes with what Hollywood studios are producing. They're not using the same tools as us and their sources are higher than ours (Uncompressed 2k film and up).

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I was just questioning why they needed to use more bits than we do. With better encoders and cleaner source material they should only need to use 15Mb/s with the GV philosophy.
                    AMD Ryzen 9 5950X, RTX 3080, 64GB RAM, EDIUS X WG.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by shueardm View Post
                      Have to disagree with you a little Anton. H264 maxes out in EDIUS or FireCoder at 23Mb/s or somewhere around that mark, which is pretty good for most videos- but it is not enough for every situation or to satisfy my desires. Why is it that Grass Valley can't give us proper H264 with profile 4.1 and bit rates up to 40Mb/s for Blu-ray?

                      I note that I have seen some hollywood movies on Blu-ray use h264 with bitrates up to 35Mb/s. Is that a waste or are they getting better results with those bitrates? Who's to know, we aren't privy enough to use specs like that with EDIUS/FireCoder Blu.

                      Harro. I wouldn't bother with making the big AVi and using Nero to encode- If H264 from EDIUS isn't enough then try high bitrate Mpeg2 from EDIUS, will be better.
                      also, note that your 50Mb/s video that you did is over the specs allowed- it's 40Mb/s max for video.

                      Cheers
                      Sometime I see them peak to 40Mb/s, I don't know if it is wasted or not but heck why not use it if you have space for it.? (-:
                      I7-6900K, X99 Taichi, Geforce GTX 1070, Corsair RM850X, Corsair H100 IV2, Windows 10, Edius WG 9.30

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                      • #12
                        Where can I find the meaning and hence appropriate settings to be used in sections such as Extended Settings, GOP/VUI Settings, Prediction Settings, GOP Structure, Picture Count etc. in the Edius Exporter section (in the H264/AVC and Mpeg sections). I particularly would like to know the GOP Structure setting as well as the one for Picture Count at this time.
                        i7 3930K, Win 10 pro 64 Bit.
                        RAM 32 GB.
                        ASUS P9X79-Deluxe.
                        PS Thermaltake 1kW.
                        Graphics Gigabyte GTX1660 OC.
                        OS:Intel 535 SSD 480 GB, Data: two 2TB WD Cavier Black, RAID 0.
                        Cameras: Sony EX1, AX100, x1000v, A7R4, DJI Mavic 2 Pro
                        SW: Edius v8.53 WG & 9.52 WG, Vegas 17 Pro, CS6, Resolve Studio 16, Hitfilm 2017, Sound Forge 13, SpectraLayers Pro v6.0, Neat Video v5, Vistitle 2.8.5 TMPEnc VMWorks 7, Auth. Works 6, MochaPro v4.1, Robuskey, DVD Architect 7, 3D LUT Creator.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by shueardm View Post
                          I was just questioning why they needed to use more bits than we do. With better encoders and cleaner source material they should only need to use 15Mb/s with the GV philosophy.
                          Mark,
                          Because they can. If I had those toys...so would I.
                          Jerry
                          Six Gill DV
                          www.sgdvtutorials.com
                          If you own the Tutorials and you need help, PM me.

                          Vistitle YouTube Channel
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                          • #14
                            here is the offical answer

                            Edius DVD Creator Blu-ray encoding is done with AVCHD H.264 encoding which has a limit of 24mbps total
                            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AVCHD

                            up to 24 Mbit/s (AVCHD conforming to H264 High-Profile, Level 4.1)

                            up to 17 Mbit/s (AVCHD conforming to H264 Main-Profile, Level 4.0)
                            Anton Strauss
                            Antons Video Productions - Sydney

                            EDIUS X WG with BM Mini Monitor 4k and BM Mini Recorder, Gigabyte X299 UD4 Pro, Intel Core i9 9960X 16 Core, 32 Threads @ 4.3Ghz, Corsair Water Cooling, Gigabyte RTX-2070 Super 3X 8GB Video Card, Samsung 860 Pro 512GB SSD for System, 8TB Samsung Raid0 SSD for Video, 2 Pioneer BDR-209 Blu-ray/DVD burners, Hotswap Bay for 3.5" Sata and 2.5" SSD, Phanteks Enthoo Pro XL Tower, Corsair 32GB DDR4 Ram, Win10 Pro 21H2

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                            • #15
                              Yes but that is the problem. They use AVCHD levels which is not the same as H.264/AVC profiles. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H.264/MPEG-4_AVC

                              The high Profile 4.1 is different in those specs because they are different formats and GV use the wrong bloomin' one in EDIUS and FireCoder Blu.

                              When you say "official answer" , who said this?
                              AMD Ryzen 9 5950X, RTX 3080, 64GB RAM, EDIUS X WG.

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