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Best method for encoding Blu-ray and SD DVD ?

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  • #16
    Artefacts in text after sharpen

    I have followed Anton's steps through Virtual Dub, but find the following: When I import the Virtual Dub converted file into a new Edius project with SD PAL settings, and I apply the Sharpen filter, I get a lot of artefacts in text (see parts of screenshots). They remain visible after exporting to MPEG.

    When I import the Virtual Dub SD file into a project with HD project settings however, I do not get these artefacts at all. As I have not seen anyone mentioning this in the many posts about this subject, I am wondering if I am doing something wrong?
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    Edius Workgroup 8.53

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    • #17
      You have probably missed this little tidbit:
      This HD to SD issue is not just in Edius. Many other editors are having difficulties in translation.
      Also, the sharper the image from your camera, the more you will notice the artifacting. An EX1 or EX3 will produce a very sharp image. This will translate to a lot of stairstepping in SD.
      To reduce 'digital harshness' I usually capture to MJPEG or Uncompressed analog. It is smoother, at least to my eye. My finals are pretty smooth as well. But on occasion I use Anton's method with virtual dub.
      Jerry
      Six Gill DV



      Vistitle YouTube Channel
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      • #18
        The problem is the artefacts that appear in text, after sharpening which is the last step in Anton's method of downscaling HD to SD.
        Edius Workgroup 8.53

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        • #19
          what % of sharpness did you apply?

          I have not seen this problem, I am using TMPro for titles

          does the video look ok without sharpen filter? I often don't use one, it depends on the source
          Anton Strauss
          Antons Video Productions - Sydney

          EDIUS X WG with BM Mini Monitor 4k and BM Mini Recorder, Gigabyte X299 UD4 Pro, Intel Core i9 9960X 16 Core, 32 Threads @ 4.3Ghz, Corsair Water Cooling, Gigabyte RTX-2070 Super 3X 8GB Video Card, Samsung 860 Pro 512GB SSD for System, 8TB Samsung Raid0 SSD for Video, 2 Pioneer BDR-209 Blu-ray/DVD burners, Hotswap Bay for 3.5" Sata and 2.5" SSD, Phanteks Enthoo Pro XL Tower, Corsair 32GB DDR4 Ram, Win10 Pro

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          • #20
            I have used 8% (8 in sharpness filter).

            I have quickly compared 3 settings:
            VDub file imported in Edius Full HD project, with sharpness filter 8: soft
            VDub file imported in Edius SD DV 16:9 project, no sharpness filter: little soft
            VDub file imported in Edius SD DV 16:9 project, with sharpness filter 8: crisp, artifacts in text

            The difference in softness between filter/no filter in an SD project is very small compared with the difference in softness when exported from an HD project.

            So best compromise for now is not to use the sharpness filter, and export from an SD project. I wouldn't have thought the project settings would play such an important role.
            Edius Workgroup 8.53

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            • #21
              Just my .02 cents.

              I have been trying the different methods and have settled upon encoding mpeg-2 straight from the HD timeline.

              But, I shoot in 720p60. So I do not have any interlacing issue to downconvert with.

              When I tried the virtual dub method the finished dvd turned out to be softer than the dvd straight from the HD timeline. Plus all of that extra work is a burden given how complicated everything is already.

              I seem to remember that anton shoots 1080i? Is this correct?

              Maybe interlaced footage benefits from virtual dub more than progressive footage.

              I am previewing on a plasma and an old DVD/CRT combo.

              Some jaggies, but to be honest, the same jaggies were there on the Virtual Dub disc.

              It sure is nice to be able to batch encode the DVD and the Blu-ray files in one swoop.
              Asus PrimeZ690A - Intel i9 13900K - 32GB RAM - NVidia GTX1070 - Edius X WG - BM Intensity 4k - Boris RED - Vitascene 2 - Windows 11

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              • #22
                My footage is also interlaced.

                As to the artefacts, I suspect Quick Titler to be the cause. I created same texts plus styles with QT and TMP, applied a sharpness filter and there you are: artefacts in the QT text, but not in the TMP text.

                So nothing caused by the method with VDub, but a bit disappointing for QT.
                Edius Workgroup 8.53

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by plekkie
                  My footage is also interlaced.

                  As to the artefacts, I suspect Quick Titler to be the cause. I created same texts plus styles with QT and TMP, applied a sharpness filter and there you are: artefacts in the QT text, but not in the TMP text.

                  So nothing caused by the method with VDub, but a bit disappointing for QT.
                  this is why I never seen such a problem because I don't use QT
                  Anton Strauss
                  Antons Video Productions - Sydney

                  EDIUS X WG with BM Mini Monitor 4k and BM Mini Recorder, Gigabyte X299 UD4 Pro, Intel Core i9 9960X 16 Core, 32 Threads @ 4.3Ghz, Corsair Water Cooling, Gigabyte RTX-2070 Super 3X 8GB Video Card, Samsung 860 Pro 512GB SSD for System, 8TB Samsung Raid0 SSD for Video, 2 Pioneer BDR-209 Blu-ray/DVD burners, Hotswap Bay for 3.5" Sata and 2.5" SSD, Phanteks Enthoo Pro XL Tower, Corsair 32GB DDR4 Ram, Win10 Pro

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by plekkie
                    So best compromise for now is not to use the sharpness filter, and export from an SD project. I wouldn't have thought the project settings would play such an important role.
                    if you add the VD SD file to a HD project, then it will look super soft, because it is being upscaled to HD

                    so always place VD SD file in SD D1 project Pal (not DV project)

                    and in NTSC countries, place the file in SD DVD project setting and not DV
                    Anton Strauss
                    Antons Video Productions - Sydney

                    EDIUS X WG with BM Mini Monitor 4k and BM Mini Recorder, Gigabyte X299 UD4 Pro, Intel Core i9 9960X 16 Core, 32 Threads @ 4.3Ghz, Corsair Water Cooling, Gigabyte RTX-2070 Super 3X 8GB Video Card, Samsung 860 Pro 512GB SSD for System, 8TB Samsung Raid0 SSD for Video, 2 Pioneer BDR-209 Blu-ray/DVD burners, Hotswap Bay for 3.5" Sata and 2.5" SSD, Phanteks Enthoo Pro XL Tower, Corsair 32GB DDR4 Ram, Win10 Pro

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                    • #25
                      It is very easy to switch between project settings in Edius....so you could just duplicate your final sequence and lable it SD version then remove the clips from this new timeline leaving the titles and any markers used for chapter points etc.

                      Then you can export the HQ final from the original sequence minus the titles and do the VD downconvert....re import and drop on to the SD version sequence timeline copy....change the project settings to SD DVD and make needed adjustments to clip & titles.

                      Now when you print to DVD your CG has only one render to undergo so it should not suffer from un needed compression artifacts...the sharpness filter can be added to just the video track if needed so as not to affect the titles.

                      Maybe usefull for those without TMPro.

                      Regards

                      Dave.
                      Main Editor - Edius 8.53 AdobeCC Mini Monitor 4K Intel X99P SLI Intel Core i7 6800K CPU Gigabyte GTX980 SanDisk Ultra Video SSD 1XINTEL System SSD 16GB Kingston DDR4 2400 RAM VisTitle 2.8 Onboard Sound 10GBE LAN WIN10Pro 64bit

                      Encoding - Gigabyte Z97X Gaming GT Intel 4790K CPU Gigabyte GTX550Ti Gigabyte GTX980 Western Digital HDD's LG Blu-ray drive, 16GB Kingston DDR3 1600 RAM BMD Mini Monitor 4K Edius 8.53 Creative Cloud Win 10 64bit Pro
                      www.nakedeyedv.com

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                      • #26
                        This issue is so dependant on subject matter, length, prefered workflow etc. My normal approach had been to export HQ fine file to use both in Vegas/Architect for Bluray and in TMPGenc for downconversion and encoding for SD DVD then use DVDLab pro. This is still my preferred approach if there are no problems. To me for my 2 hour plus programs of theatre and dance it is the quickest and produces the best looking output in the shortest time. I have had two instances where I had sets on stage that resulted in shimmering lines on diagonal tiles. The Vdub approach resulted in a better output but the issue was still there just less so and whatever I did the output lacked the sparkle of the TMPGenc approach. I did an in camera down convert from the FX1 with the original tape and the problem was there as well!!! I use TMPGenc because to me it has the best encoder for these low bit rate conversions of any of the encoders that I have. I just did a 2 hour 26 min dance show, for cost and convenience ( customer choice) this was on a single DVD ( about 3650 ave, 2000 min and 8000 max AC3 196) I did this both ways, VDub and TMpgenc watched both on CRT and Plasma( regular input and PS3 upscaled) and still choose the TMPGenc version. For Bluray I used the HQ file in Vegas to set markers and encode for DVD Architect (MPEG2, 18000 min, 21500 ave, 30 max AC3 256). Source for this video was FX1 HDV native, and SR11 and XR500 1920x1080i AVCHD converted to HQ.

                        Ron Evans
                        Ron Evans

                        Threadripper 1920 stock clock 3.7, Gigabyte Designare X399 MB, 32G G.Skill 3200CL14, 500G M.2 NVME OS, 500G EVO 850 temp. 1T EVO 850 render, 16T Source, 2 x 1T NVME, MSI 1080Ti 11G , EVGA 850 G2, LG BLuray Burner, BM IP4K, WIN10 Pro, Shuttle Pro2

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Ron Evans
                          For Bluray I used the HQ file in Vegas to set markers and encode for DVD Architect (MPEG2, 18000 min, 21500 ave, 30 max AC3 256). Source for this video was FX1 HDV native, and SR11 and XR500 1920x1080i AVCHD converted to HQ.
                          Ron, I have been trying for weeks without success to get DVD Architect to accept files without re-rendering.

                          Using 1440 x 1080 setting for Blu-ray MPEG 18000 - 23500, and AC 3 audio @ 256. (which always gets re-encoded too)

                          I don't have Vegas, but have you or anyone else managed to get compliant files into Architect straight from Edius without re-encoding for Blu-ray?

                          It's very frustrating,

                          Cheers,

                          Vaughan
                          Main Edit System ASUS Z170-Pro, 6700K, 32 gig ram HD Spark, Windows 7 64bit Edius 8.1 (Edit Machine)
                          2nd System Intel DZ77BH, 3770K, 16 GB ram, Edius 8.1 (ingest and authoring)
                          3rd system (internet & Printing station)

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by antonsvideo
                            so always place VD SD file in SD D1 project Pal (not DV project)
                            It has been ask and explained before (long ago) that D1 and DV doesn't make any (much) difference when starting a SD project using DV avi footage, please clarify why it does make a big difference now. TIA

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                            • #29
                              No Vaughan, I nearly always encode outside of Edius for all sorts of reasons.
                              How did you get DVD Architect without Vegas? I thought the only way to get DVD Architect was with Vegas that is certainly how I got DVD Architect as it came with an upgrade to Vegas. Vegas is more convenient for setting named markers that transfer to DVD Architect as named chapters, having a preset for DVD Architect and is quite happy to use either a HDV or HQ file ( at least 32 bit version as there is no 64bit HQ codec).

                              Ron Evans
                              Ron Evans

                              Threadripper 1920 stock clock 3.7, Gigabyte Designare X399 MB, 32G G.Skill 3200CL14, 500G M.2 NVME OS, 500G EVO 850 temp. 1T EVO 850 render, 16T Source, 2 x 1T NVME, MSI 1080Ti 11G , EVGA 850 G2, LG BLuray Burner, BM IP4K, WIN10 Pro, Shuttle Pro2

                              ASUS PB328 monitor, BenQ BL2711U 4K preview monitor, EDIUS X, 9.5 WG, Vegas 18, Resolve Studio 18


                              Cameras: GH5S, GH6, FDR-AX100, FDR-AX53, DJI OSMO Pocket, Atomos Ninja V x 2

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by SoundFreak
                                It has been ask and explained before (long ago) that D1 and DV doesn't make any (much) difference when starting a SD project using DV avi footage, please clarify why it does make a big difference now. TIA
                                D1 is upper field first and matches the whole process of making DVD, which is also upper field first

                                this is why edius also calls it D1/DVD in Pal and DVD in NTSC
                                Anton Strauss
                                Antons Video Productions - Sydney

                                EDIUS X WG with BM Mini Monitor 4k and BM Mini Recorder, Gigabyte X299 UD4 Pro, Intel Core i9 9960X 16 Core, 32 Threads @ 4.3Ghz, Corsair Water Cooling, Gigabyte RTX-2070 Super 3X 8GB Video Card, Samsung 860 Pro 512GB SSD for System, 8TB Samsung Raid0 SSD for Video, 2 Pioneer BDR-209 Blu-ray/DVD burners, Hotswap Bay for 3.5" Sata and 2.5" SSD, Phanteks Enthoo Pro XL Tower, Corsair 32GB DDR4 Ram, Win10 Pro

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