Official Blu-ray AVC/VC1 encoding and authoring thread

[STORMDAVE]

Not sure if this warrants a sticky, but would be great to see what the people who've been doing BD for a while (and what settings/codecs/authoring software) they use and how long it takes to go from exporting out of EDIUS (either through Procoder, or any other means) to the final BD disc.

Yes, there is a lot of info out there via Google, but thought it'd be nice to have a compact space where everyone posts their advice in a single thread. I will be authoring test discs with Encore and will report my findings. It took me years to become advanced in DVD authoring, and hopefully BD is not a total restart for me or anyone else.

[SRsupport]

There is much about this in the Firecoder Blu forum. :)

[STORMDAVE]

Yes, but isn't it split around? Also not everyone is using FireCoder Blu :)

[Ron Evans]

David, this is my workflow. Most projects are three cameras, two FX1's and a SR11 of theatre shows so are about 2 hours long. SR11 is converted using either HQ or Cineform, HDV is native on timeline. Multicam edit export either HDV ( if I am going to copy to tape as well) or HQ. Bring this file into Vegas 8 for final audio editing, set markers and name for chapter marks in BD ( and SD DVD). Render to DVD Architect preset in MPEG2 VBR ( 30 max 25 to21 average, 15 min), export PCM audio file.
Author in DVD Architect ( chapter marks and naming are brought over from Vegas render). Create BD iso file from DVD Architect. Burn with Nero. I have used Sony BD-R and BD-RE as well as TDK and Verbatim disc too of 25G and DL 50G. I have made about 25 discs so far and all play good on my PS3.
I use the HQ file in TMPGenc to create a SD version and substitute files in DVD Architect to get a SD version.
So far all my discs have been MPEG2 as they are around 2 hours or for our holiday video of 5 hours I put this on a 50G disc. By the way I edited our holiday shot in AVCHD on my SR11 in Vegas native and it was quicker to export to MPEG2 than to Sony AVC!!! Which is why its in MPEG2!!
Sony smart renders the HDV file so conversion from CBR HDV to VBR for BD is quick, usually less than 50% realtime.

Ron Evans

[bseidner]

Authoring Blue Ray DVDs - starting from Zero

I would like to also author Blue Ray DVDs. I have authoring SD DVDs for years but no experience in Blue Ray. Knowing I have EDIUS 5 (and 4.5), and DVD Workshop 2, what are the minumum software products I would need to buy to start the basics of authoring Blue Ray DVDs? I would rather start simple, with minumum workflow to do basic chapters, before I get too advanced.

[mattie]

wait til 5.1 is released - it has blu ray built in to it

[Bassman]

The only way I have been able to use Encore CS4 is to encode AVCHD from Edius and demux the streams in TSMuxer.

I need to change the AVC file to 4.1 in the TSMuxer program to bypass the auto encoding in Encore.

I also output a wave file of the audio from Edius and encode the AC3 in Encore as well. Nice that we can use 24bit audio all the way through.

It works and is not that bad of a workflow, but I hope Edius 5.1 has it as easy as the "old" DVD workflow.

And lets hope we can output elementary streams to eliminate the demux step!

[Ron Evans]

I see lots of people going to AVC encoding with a lot of problems. Does everyone have such long programs they need the time on a 25G BD disc? I have no problem getting 2 hours and 30 mins VBR MPEG2 on which is to me the same quality as the 25mbps CBR original. Starting with HDV the quality will not improve encoding in AVC just the time on disc. I can see the point if one is starting with a very high quality original from XDCamEX etc but not from HDV.

Ron Evans

[shueardm]

You are right Ron. Mpeg 2 is more than adequate and most of us don't do projects of 2.5+ hrs to warrant AVC. If you are encoding using software and don't need more than 2.5 hrs there is no point in encoding to AVC. However, with Firecoder Blu there is no point in encoding to Mpeg2 as it is no faster to do so.

[Khoi Pham]

If it is less than 2 hrs. I use ProCoder MPEG2 HD, longer then I use Edius/ AVC, and Encore CS3 to author, I also use DVDITHD Pro before and it works also but Encore is faster when you try to access menus while watching, I use TDK hub printable BD but might try something different soon cuz I'm about to run out of the TDK.

[Blast1]

Just curious, what is everyone using for media, I notice there is regular brands like RiData, Verbatim, Sony, Memorex, Phillips, TDK, Panasonic, etc, Anyone try off brands like Vinpower(supposed to be RiData), Optical Quantum, Falcon??

[Ron Evans]

However, with Firecoder Blu there is no point in encoding to Mpeg2 as it is no faster to do so.

There is however no technical advantage in using AVC over MPEG if the source is HDV. IF the source is AVCHD or EX then there may well be an advantage but again only if there is some real control over the data rate. Something I do not believe is true for Firecoder. Integration is the other issue with both the NLE and the authoring software. I will wait with interest to see what improvements there with the next release of Edius.
Video is a retirement hobby for me but I still do an average of 2 shows a month usually of around the 2 hour time. Considering the time taken for encoding etc it is small compared to the editing time( usually days!!!). Bluray in fact is faster than the SD version. Longest time is TMPGenc 2 pass encoding for SD which takes around 3 hours normally on my quad core. Output from Edius is around 40 mins and transcode from Vegas with final audio and markers etc to VBR MPEG for Architect is about the same time, with create time in Architect of about 30mins. I would still do my audio in Vegas so cannot take out this time. IF I could export from Edius with Firecoder a DVD Architect video I could then still do audio in Vegas and input file into Architect. However I can't see the time being significant in my total work flow at the moment though I can see it could save an hour or so if all the files were fully compliant and I didn't have to demux to use etc.

Ron Evans

[STORMDAVE]

Thanks Ron and others for contributing to the thread.

Are there bitrate calculators for AVC and MPEG2? Right now I'm testing AVC. Some of my events are 4 hours, so I think I'll need to use AVC to keep it on one single layer BD disc. I hope by then dual layer will be cheap and I can use MPEG2 to not spend time.

Also we shoot DVCPROHD 100mbit 1080i60 (or 720p24/30/60, depending on the situation) but mostly 1080i60 will be used. The source footage is beautiful.

As far as MPEG2 goes, and how we were able to use bitrate calculators for DVD's, I have a hard time calculating the bitrate so I can enter it into ProCoder3. I don't think I'll be doing menu's. Most of my clients just want an instant play for events. Will be using BD-RE media to do some testing.

I saw the TDK 4x Inkjet hub printable media going for about $13 a piece.

[Ron Evans]

This is where I get my supplies https://www.blankmedia.ca/proddetail3.asp?id=1394 remember this is in Canadian dollars. I have been using some of the TDK DB-RE 50G that are on this site at $20 and they are great.
4 hours no menus is pushing it a little, my last 2 hour show had 38 chapter points with a main and sub menu very easy to do in Architect. I don't think I have ever produced a DVD without a menu.
With the high quality you are starting with it may well be worth while going to AVC but you will still have a problem getting high quality AVC of that length on a 25G disc. AVCHD at 16mbps runs about 8G an hour so if you want to get 4 hours in 25G you will have to drop down to between 9 and 12mbps I would think. At the moment the Sony's AVCHD cams at SP run at 9mbps 1440x1080i and I can tell the difference to the 16mbps 1920x1080i quality. There are posts on other boards that say there is a difference when going to the 24mbps of the Canon and the latest Panasonic. I am sure it is possible to squeeze 4 hours on the disc but you may see a real difference to the source.
Don't use Procoder so can't help there.

Ron Evans

[Bassman]

Ron,

I am using AVC because I do not have Procoder and if I send an Mpeg-2 out of Edius, Encore wants to transcode it.

Basically, AVC is all I can get to work inside of Encore.

I have purchased some $3.75 BD-Rs from Meritline. I have yet to make one but I thought I would give them a shot.

All my work has been tests on a BD-RE.