HDV ----> 4/3 DV. help!

[Ulisse]

Hi,
I have to make two avi files (4/3 DV)

1) I have a tape with HDV footage and I have to convert it to a different tape in 4/3 DV. Is it possible? With Edius 5 I don't succeed on it.

2) I have a HDV project on the timeline and I have to convert it to 4/3 DV but when I do it I see two black strips (on top and on bottom). Is it possible to remove those black strips so that I can see a normal 4/3 DV? What are the right steps please?
thanks

[Ron Evans]

Change the project settings to SD 4x3. Then use the layout tool to crop the HDV 16x9 image into the 4x3. You can use the presets or move to the crop that you want. The preset for crop to height will crop off the side and you will not get the black bars or letterbox. You can alter the crop to anywhere in the 16x9 frame that you want and even keyframe if you use Edius 5.

Ron Evans

[DigitalDave]

I would capture the footage AS DV by letting the player hardware down convert - always better than SW ....IMHO.....and then use Layout to crop as Ron suggests.

[Ulisse]

Thanks for your advice

[Ron Evans]

IF you downconvert in camera to DV the file will have lost the resolution you will need to do a full resolution crop with layout. But will be easier and may not be noticeable too much though you will loose vertical and horizontal resolution to remove the bars. If you have a Pro camera that can also do a 4x3 crop in camera then you will avoid this issue. Some of the Sony's will do this like the Z1 it will however be a fixed crop as far as its location is concerned( normally centre crop) whereas the use of layout will give you the option of selecting how the crop is done.

Ron Evans

[jaegersing]

I would do the downconvert in software. Some camera conversions are not too good. And some have actual flaws, like Canon XH-A1 and HV30 PAL versions where the downconverted video has a twittering line at the top of the screen.

Richard

[DigitalDave]

IF you downconvert in camera to DV the file will have lost the resolution you will need to do a full resolution crop with layout. But will be easier and may not be noticeable too much though you will loose vertical and horizontal resolution to remove the bars. If you have a Pro camera that can also do a 4x3 crop in camera then you will avoid this issue. Some of the Sony's will do this like the Z1 it will however be a fixed crop as far as its location is concerned( normally centre crop) whereas the use of layout will give you the option of selecting how the crop is done.

Ron Evans

I take on board what you say and in fact it is in line with something I have been doing on mixed projects, exporting an Edit to HDV tape and recapturing as DV downconverting via Sony HDV25 (dont use Canon...so if it doesnt work- should have bought Sony). The problem that everyone has found and if TGV could address would shoot them up the charts is getting to SD and staying sharp. I recently had some NTSC AVCHD to convert to SD PAL- short of using Mark Stuart's definitive 20 step SW conversion, hardware was definitely the easiest route to keep it looking somewhere approaching reasonable.
To everyone who gets to this place, use what works for you.

DD

[rob stowell]

I need to do this tomorrow for a project, so any tips very gratefully received. Even a 20-step process... I thought it'd be simple, and it has, so far, been very simple and quick, to get a very substandard picture. Unfortunately the footage is jvc 720p and there's no hardware option.

[Ulisse]

I have just done the downconvert with Edius 5 and used the crop method to eliminate the black bars.
I have got a very bad result. Now I see degraded images and lost many details because the image is bigger. If I would have known the final result I would not have done anything. Unfortunately the tape was taken with faint light and it was not a good film.

[Ron Evans]

The SD image will be noticeably less quality than the HDV image whatever you do as it has less than 1/4 the resolution. IF you downconvert before crop you will get even less resolution as the image will now have only about 2/3 of the resolution of an SD image as you have cut off the bars on the top and bottom and stretched the picture out to fill the 4x3 image area. By cropping an HDV image in an SD project you are cropping a full resolution SD DV 4x3 image from the HDV image. You can crop to about a 4:1 zoom with full resolution. By choosing the crop dimension you can make the downconvert very easy for the software, essentially just cut out the exact resolution or multiple needed. Anything different will require interpolation and lead to some degradation.
Focus is very critical in HDV so what looked in focus on a HD monitor may not be in close enough focus for a good downconvert zoom crop. If you apply sharpen filter to about 15 or 20 will also improve the final image too.
IF you are going to stay 16x9 I have found I get a better downconvert by staying in HDV and exporting a HQ file and letting TMPGenc create the SD MPEG2 files for DVD.

Ron Evans

[NakedEye]

Hi Rob you could try this

Export your finished timeline to HQ or LossLess.

Download & install VirtualDub.

Import into VirtualDub your exported HQ file (it will look sqished so adjust aspect from the right click menu) then under the video menu on the tool bar do the following:

under filters add resize - leave the Filter Mode as default - Choose Aspect ratio Disabled then Absolute (pixels) & type in your values (720x576) Ok

now add the Sharpness Filter & set to between 4 & 8 Ok (experiment here)

Then under colour depth from the video menu & choose Autoselect on the left & Same As on the right. Ok

Then under Compresion from the video menu set your compresion format to HQ or LossLess (I prefer LL).

Now go to the file menu & choose Save As AVI.

If you are going to DVD @ 4:3 you could open a SD D1 DVD 4:3 project in Edius....import your down converted video created in vdub....right click the clip and set the correct properties for aspect to 16:9 frame to progressive.

Drop on the timeline and from the layout tool select Original Size this will fill the frame vertically.

You can now go along the time line & make any framing adjustments using the layout tool to slide the clip left or right.

I would normally export via procoder3 from Edius at this point but you should get good results going from the Edius MPEG exporter.

Edius should handle the progressive to interlace interpretation.

You can check out the procoder forum sticky on this subject for more info or visit antons website for tips on this.

Good luck

Dave.

[rob stowell]

Thanks naked eye. I will try that on a short clip. But I need to get the dv files into avid media composer to finish cutting a job which was shot dv4:3 (apart from this last bit of footage) so in the end I want a DV file. Following Ron's suggestions, and exporting to avid dv using the quicktime exporter worked ok, but I DO wish I'd added a touch of sharpness: it can look dreadful, but just a little might work here (and that's something I should do in virtual dub, I guess: I like their sharpness filter).

[NakedEye]

Rob just select a DV 4:3 project to import your vdub down converted file into....make the adjustments and then export to a DV stream for AVID.

[Bluetongue]

I do this all the time for the for DVD 16:9 and local community TV station that transmits in 4:3 still and the results are perfect, no artifacts!
But I use Canopus lossless only
Export from EDIUS in Lossless and import into Virtual dub
the settings for virtual dub are as follows
Filter "Resize"
"Absolute pixels" 720 x 576
"Aspect Ratio" disabled
Interlaced
"Do not letterbox or crop"
"Codec friendly sizing" do not adjust
"Filter mode" Lanczos3"

For 4:3 While in the filter select area select "CROPPING" otherwise for 16:9 do not change
settings
"X1 offset" 180
"X2 offset" 180
This will crop the left and right side to 4:3

Filter "Sharpen" set to 8

Under Video on the Menu Bar
set Compression to "Canopus Lossless"

Select "Save as AVI"

Bring back into Edius 5
Select Properties<> Video
Make sure Pixel aspect is 4:3 or 16:9 as required and Field order is set to UPPER

From there you can export to tape or file for DVD

I have saved the presets in Virtual dub for instant recall for 16:9DVD or 4:3

Using this method I get no artifacts or strobing of horizontal lines and the picture is te sharpest I have seen so far and is easy to set up and achieve, it does make BIG AVI files though
Regards Barry

[rob stowell]

Thanks Barry (and everyone else!) - lovely detailed instructions. I will try it overnight, as I need to keep editing today (and I've got about 40 mins of footage to convert: luckily a new system and still a terabyte or so of free disc space). Cheers.