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  • HD Questions...

    OUCH!!!! this thing is long... Sorry guys :(


    Hey guys it has been a LONG time since I have been able to post or even have the time to log into the forum and read what is going on so forgive me if I ask somethings that have been gone over.

    Here is the deal, I am finally considering tossing all 4 of my SD DV cameras to move into the HD arena I have been doing some testing and I am a bit befuddled with my own results and could use your explanations.

    My system is a Quad Core extreme over clocked to 3.3 Ghz with no Edius hardware (I have other systems here with Rex RT, Storm, and even a system at the office with a NX inside) this system uses 3 LCD monitors running on a Matrox "triple-head-to-go" running at 3840x1024 from an Nvidia GTX880 (768MB) and the second video out is going component out up to a Plasma 42". The reason this system has no editing accelerated hardware is it is also a box for audio work (Film scoring) that is really my forte and it has lots of other hardware on board for that task. When I am typically editing I run winXP SP2 and I use the three monitors to edit on and the plasma uses full screen overlay (run by the nvidia card) to copy my playback window out at full screen/full resolution. I have a hardware accelerated (on board high point or Promise chips) RAID running SATA 3gb drives for over a TB of editing space. This system works fine for editing DV

    I have used some of the Canopus test fottage and it runs but really taxes the system but for todays conversation lets talk about footage I just shot.

    Today I took my fathers B-role camera (Panasonic AG-HSC1UP) and shot some backyard footage to SD cards (AVCHD - 1440x1081i 29.97fps probably about 13mbps max for that camera) the footage looks good I can view it with the AVCHDPRV and I can even convert it and it runs in Edius 5. I can even load the MTS files into Edius 5 with no problems. The questions I have pertain to performance I am getting, what I should be getting and what format would make the most sense in the end based on that perfomrance (AVCHD, HDV etc...)

    PERFORMANCE:

    The AVCHD native files chug on the timeline (no go)

    The converted files (in AVCHD2HQ - Canopus HQ) at 1440x1080 play fine on the timeline and scrub OK even up at 1920x1080. but if I put even one thing like a "NewBlue Colorization" and the time line stops after about 22 frames (Buffer runs out) interestingly enough I ran the taskbar and all 4 CPUs are getting hit pretty hard and disk access is also slammed. I think my raid is more than capable so is it CPU overload? Buss overload?

    Then I drop down to and HD setting and it is all about the same thing 22 to 24 frames before stop.

    Then I drop the project settings down to SD (yuck it looks so soft now) and it plays fine. The CPU load is like 40 to 60% and the hard drive is hardly being taxed. What gives???

    This must mean it isn't really the raid trying to struggle but the CPU's? and or the buss?

    Interestingly enough I even tried converting the AVCHD footage (in AVCHD2HQ) to different settings fine, Standard and Ofline (offline looked horrible) but still all three files still exibited the same lugging in HD presets. So again maybe a bus thing or the CPU having to crank out the overlay? (Maybe i'll take these files into the office where the NX hardware is and give it a try?)

    Maybe this is just how HD is?

    Do I need a faster box to do HD then this Quad Core monster???

    Maybe HDV would be better?? (I don't think so)


    My heart is I am really very tied up with ministry stuff these days so I have pretty much shut down my commercial work (Multi - camera shoots etc...) and have also pulled my head way out of the techy scene since HD hit the ground, Heck the only HD monitor in my house is the plasma in the studio for clients to watch durring scoring sessions, and when I do stop to watch TV on it my tuner is a Tivo series2 (SD) that looks realy bad. My family and I still watch TV on the old Sony trinitron in the living room. I am really interested in doing more small projects that are story based and have a film look. So I am considering moving to HD in either AVCHD - Solid State (this is my preference) or going with something really inexpensive like a Canon HV20 that shoots in HDV (Back to tapes - bummer) and then getting a nice 35 mm DOF adapter and shooting shorts that will probably be more for the web or for display on projection screens than anything else. (maybe eventually some things will be burned to BluRay). Really the only reason for moving to HD is because when I put on a 35mm DOF Adapter I know I'll loose some resolution through all that glass and if I had to convert SD into 16x9. I want to start with a really nice crisp picture even if it is only going to get crunched down to the web.

    Any thought or suggestions?

    I feel like I am starting all over again learning a whole new set of rules... (UG!)

    Thank you for your suggestions.
    Blessings,
    Jason Silzle
    My Companies (or associated websites)
    JasonSilzle.com
    Dove Digital Media
    SaxTraxs
    Dove-Weddings
    Church Videos now
    Orange County Realty Films

    Edius 8.2 Win10 Pro 64bit 6Core/12thread i7 970 4Ghz OC, 24G Ram, 8TB local raid, 48TB SAN raid, (2)128gb SSD in-Raid for 256gb OS Dive, Radeon 295X2 GPU & Spark :)

  • #2
    Jason, well that was an earfull!

    Ok here is what I see. You are going to need to convert to Canopus HQ codec before you are going to edit smoothly on the timeline. It does not matter a diifeerence if you are aquiring your video on HDV Tape, Solid State, or AVCHD. You will need to convert to HQ before adding to the timeline.

    As for the "triple head to go", That is fine though forget about that second port on the graphics card being used as a reference monitor.

    If I where you, I would connect only two LCD's to the matrox THTG and connect the third LCD to the second port on the graphics card. Set this up as a tri-panel desktop.

    Install the NX into this system and connect the outputs of the NX to your 42 plasma panel for reference video out while editing.
    George Dame
    Grass Valley / Canopus System Integrator - Nearly 13 Years
    Providing Systems, Onsite Delivery, Support & Training Services Nationwide
    Get Your Copy of The Edius 6 Comprehensive Tutorial by contacting me via PM, email or phone
    Invite us to your local video association for a full demonstration!
    www.editHD.com - 1-877-ieditDV

    Comment


    • #3
      Thanks for the input. I must keep the current configuration (three screens etc...) for all the other audio work I do. but I understand about converting to HQ I am just so suprised that when the footage was converted to HQ it was still so slugish and couldn't even handle 1 color filter before stopping. Especially given the Quad core extreme processor running at 3.4Ghz

      I am considering placing a spark card in the system and running out to the Plasma. Do you think that would help and take the load off the CPU?
      Jason Silzle
      My Companies (or associated websites)
      JasonSilzle.com
      Dove Digital Media
      SaxTraxs
      Dove-Weddings
      Church Videos now
      Orange County Realty Films

      Edius 8.2 Win10 Pro 64bit 6Core/12thread i7 970 4Ghz OC, 24G Ram, 8TB local raid, 48TB SAN raid, (2)128gb SSD in-Raid for 256gb OS Dive, Radeon 295X2 GPU & Spark :)

      Comment


      • #4
        How does it play if you disconnect the plasma secondary monitor completely so that you only have the triple head to go as your desktop. Make the Edius Monitor preview window small and see how that plays.
        George Dame
        Grass Valley / Canopus System Integrator - Nearly 13 Years
        Providing Systems, Onsite Delivery, Support & Training Services Nationwide
        Get Your Copy of The Edius 6 Comprehensive Tutorial by contacting me via PM, email or phone
        Invite us to your local video association for a full demonstration!
        www.editHD.com - 1-877-ieditDV

        Comment


        • #5
          Be aware that new Blue filters are hugely taxing in HD and usually require a render. Example, I can put colour balance, anti flicker, old movie, region and soft focus on an HD clip (canopus HQ) and it plays fine.

          Add NewBlue "colorize" alone and it chokes.

          This is also true of other plugs such as Prodad Vitascene.

          see my signature for system spec.

          Paul
          Edius Edits at: http://www.vimeo.com/user781619/videos

          1) AMD 3900X 12 core 4.6Ghz 2) Asus X79 4930K 6 core @4.4GHz Water Cooled. 480GB REVO3x2 System drive, 4TB Raid 0, 4 TB E-Sata Raid 5, 32GB RAM, GTX1070Ti Decklink HD Extreme. 3X Sony AX53 Sony AX700 BMPCC 4K

          http://indiestereographer.blogspot.co.uk

          Comment


          • #6
            I think it might be graphics processor card too. Newblue, ProDad, etc ... all use GPU for rendering at RT (if you have the horsepower). So, if GPU don't have enough power, only recourse is to render the overloaded regions of timeline.

            Gdame can correct me - but, it think GTX8800 (Jason is running that) is slow compared with GTX9800.
            TingSern
            --------------------------------------
            Edius 9.4 Pro, Lenovo P72 workstation laptop, 64GB RAM, Xeon CPU, Windows 10 Pro (64 bits), 2 x 2TB Samsung M2.NVME and 1 x 4TB Samsung SSD internal. Panasonic UX180 camera, Blackmagic 4K Pocket Cinema, Blackmagic Pocket Cinema

            Comment


            • #7
              While the 8800 GTX is a little bit dated, I am not sure that is your problem. I do agree that you are trying to use filters that are GPU intensive.

              If you are going to update the graphics card then bypass the 9800GTX and look for a GTX260 or higher. BTW, the new GTX250 is just a renamed 9800GTX+.

              Back in the Xplode days, canopus was king of GPU FX. One of the issues that would make or break RT Xplode performance was the resolution and refresh rate that the graphics card was set to. Also the driver version was critical to performance as well. The one thing that I noticed which is unusual in Jasons set-up is that he is running a Matrox triple head to go. This device is seen by the graphics card as a single 3840 x 1024 display. In order to make any determination here I would bring the system to a simple dual screen desktop with a more traditional resolution on each DVI port of the graphics card rather than 3840 x 1024 off of one DVI port. I would start here to determine when the problem is intrioduced.
              George Dame
              Grass Valley / Canopus System Integrator - Nearly 13 Years
              Providing Systems, Onsite Delivery, Support & Training Services Nationwide
              Get Your Copy of The Edius 6 Comprehensive Tutorial by contacting me via PM, email or phone
              Invite us to your local video association for a full demonstration!
              www.editHD.com - 1-877-ieditDV

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by gdame View Post
                If you are going to update the graphics card then bypass the 9800GTX and look for a GTX260 or higher.
                NewBlue effects are indeed Not Realtime with the 9800GTX+ 1Gb ..............

                When I used Matrox cards, back in the days, I also noticed that Dual Display will run smoother than a spanned settings, George might be close to the issue here.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Perhaps, not even any existing graphics card can do that in real time then?
                  TingSern
                  --------------------------------------
                  Edius 9.4 Pro, Lenovo P72 workstation laptop, 64GB RAM, Xeon CPU, Windows 10 Pro (64 bits), 2 x 2TB Samsung M2.NVME and 1 x 4TB Samsung SSD internal. Panasonic UX180 camera, Blackmagic 4K Pocket Cinema, Blackmagic Pocket Cinema

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Looks like that, or maybe someone with a GTX2 series could chyme in.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Can Edius do cuts only editing using the AVCHD codec? I am just curius. I know AVC HD is a hard codec for the CPU to edit.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I can't even playback AVCHD native on timeline, much less do any editing. You have to transcode it to Canopus HQ or Cineform's codec.
                        TingSern
                        --------------------------------------
                        Edius 9.4 Pro, Lenovo P72 workstation laptop, 64GB RAM, Xeon CPU, Windows 10 Pro (64 bits), 2 x 2TB Samsung M2.NVME and 1 x 4TB Samsung SSD internal. Panasonic UX180 camera, Blackmagic 4K Pocket Cinema, Blackmagic Pocket Cinema

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Can someone direct me to some AVCHD clips so I can try it out on my end on the i7 and the Xeon workstation? I'm curious to see the performance.

                          I can edit JPEG2000 (Which is said to be equivalent to AVC-Intra as far as the performance you can get)....a single track of J2K that is.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Thanks for the info. It is good to be curious.

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