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need help with ADVC 300

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  • GrassValley_BH
    replied
    On your encoding to H.264, it depends mostly where the deinterlacing happens. If Premiere is smart enough (or you force it to) deinterlace before it hits the encoder, the encoder gets progressive frames and doesn't have to worry about deinterlacing. On the other hand, if Premiere just sends the fields to the encoder, the encoder will have to reassemble them into frames.

    This is very similar to the whole concept behind standalone deinterlacers and scalers for plasma/LCD televisions and projectors. Most times the TV/projector has a mediocre deinterlacer and scaler, so people will put a dedicated deinterlacer/scaler
    in the signal chain before the output reaches the TV or projector. That way the TV/projector's deinterlacer/scaler is bypassed.

    Of another analogy...

    You can send me a URL to a non-English website and let me go run it through Babelfish and get some funky translation that may be 80-90% correct understanding, or you can translate it to English for me and tell me, so I get 95-100% correct understanding.


    There's no automatic deinterlacing in the ADVC300 that I'm aware of at least... There really shouldn't be, because DV is interlaced by spec.

    As for apps to cut/trim, VirtualDub does a good job. Nero Vision is a little weird with its cutting, but I have used it on occasion when I was in a bind.

    Leave a comment:


  • mcmadman
    Guest replied
    Deinterlaced or interlaced

    Originally posted by GrassValley_BH View Post
    Wikipedia's article on interlaced video seems to imply that interlacing is bad and progressive is good.

    While this is the case for the same sampling rate (where a progressive datastream would hence require double the data bandwidth), it doesn't touch a lot on the temporal aspect.

    The temporal aspect deals with the perception of motion.

    For two streams at the same datarate - 30i and 15p, the 30i clip will appear to have smoother motion, because even though each sample is only half a frame (one field), there are more "snapshots in time" compared to the 15p clip.

    For those in PAL land, you probably don't notice as much at the movies since your TV is 25 fps, but for us NTSC folks, we notice the difference in motion between a 24 fps film and regular 29.97 fps TV.

    Horizontal panning in movies seems to "skip" or "jump" in movies compared to the same horizontal pan in regular TV video.

    To get a better idea, imagine a flip-book - a pad of paper that you flip through the pages quickly and see something move.

    For the same data rate:
    Interlaced video has poorer pictures (because each is half resolution), but more pages. So when you flip through, the motion is more fluid.

    Progressive video has better pictures, but half as many pages. So when you flip through, the motion tends to "jump" more from picture to picture.

    Again, for the same data rate:
    Turning progressive video into interlaced video is easy. Turning interlaced video into progressive video, is significantly more difficult. Because each pair of fields that create a frame have been sampled ("snapshot-ed") at different times, sophisticated motion detection and frame blending alogrithms must be used. After all, if in one field my arm is to my side and in the next field my arm is raised, if we blend those two fields, it'll look like I have 3 arms - one solid and two "ghost" arms! And trust me, I only have two arms.

    Okay, that's my brain dump for today.
    I recently captured old films with my brand new ADVC300 with out of the box settings using Premiere. I then used QuickTime Pro to trim the beginning and end of the movie and converted to h.264 with 1500kb/s setings and the results look fine. My question is, is the result of this deinterlaced automatically or is it interlaced? I can not verify this with wmp since i got some error and I should reinstall it.

    I played it back thru VLC and the h.264 encoded actually looks better than the raw DV i got out from premiere (original has jagged lines sometimes when something is moving) Which leads me to the ollowing question. Is there some kind of automated deinterlacing in the advc300 that makes the lines appear, because the artifacts i see on the captured DV is like the "weaved" described in wikipedia.

    Then one more question. What is the best thing or codec to do/use to encompress the DV AVI file gotten from premiere raw that still maintains the interlacing so it can be used with things like DVD's

    Also if someone could suggest some easy to use app to cut he excess parts off the captured videos and maybe lip them to smaller pieces as well. I don't trust the premier in that too much since it ALWAYS does the annoying and time consuming RENDERING no matter what you do.

    Leave a comment:


  • GrassValley_BH
    replied
    Wikipedia's article on interlaced video seems to imply that interlacing is bad and progressive is good.

    While this is the case for the same sampling rate (where a progressive datastream would hence require double the data bandwidth), it doesn't touch a lot on the temporal aspect.

    The temporal aspect deals with the perception of motion.

    For two streams at the same datarate - 30i and 15p, the 30i clip will appear to have smoother motion, because even though each sample is only half a frame (one field), there are more "snapshots in time" compared to the 15p clip.

    For those in PAL land, you probably don't notice as much at the movies since your TV is 25 fps, but for us NTSC folks, we notice the difference in motion between a 24 fps film and regular 29.97 fps TV.

    Horizontal panning in movies seems to "skip" or "jump" in movies compared to the same horizontal pan in regular TV video.

    To get a better idea, imagine a flip-book - a pad of paper that you flip through the pages quickly and see something move.

    For the same data rate:
    Interlaced video has poorer pictures (because each is half resolution), but more pages. So when you flip through, the motion is more fluid.

    Progressive video has better pictures, but half as many pages. So when you flip through, the motion tends to "jump" more from picture to picture.

    Again, for the same data rate:
    Turning progressive video into interlaced video is easy. Turning interlaced video into progressive video, is significantly more difficult. Because each pair of fields that create a frame have been sampled ("snapshot-ed") at different times, sophisticated motion detection and frame blending alogrithms must be used. After all, if in one field my arm is to my side and in the next field my arm is raised, if we blend those two fields, it'll look like I have 3 arms - one solid and two "ghost" arms! And trust me, I only have two arms.

    Okay, that's my brain dump for today.

    Leave a comment:


  • GrassValley_BH
    replied
    Encoding as progressive will deinterlace the video, resulting in an effective framerate of 12.5 fps (you're in PAL, right?)...

    If the deinterlacing does frame-blending or its motion detection is sub-par, you can end up with artifacts similar to your original problem, except now the problem is not in the display end, but actually in the video.

    It's one of those things that isn't necessarily bad, but you should be aware of the effect of what you're doing.

    Leave a comment:


  • mathewlisett
    replied
    right well solved it although not the quiqest of results.

    after capturing with sony vegas, put it through tmpgenc xpress which you can then select the output source at the frame rate you want and also select PROGRESSIVE SCAN this will sort the issue out.

    Leave a comment:


  • GrassValley_BH
    replied
    The "thick bands" is related to tearing and is usually a decoding latency problem. It's common when the player doesn't use buffering or overlay for display. You shouldn't need to compensate for it when encoding unless frame-by-frame is also showing the problem.

    Leave a comment:


  • mathewlisett
    replied
    well after some testing the audio that sounds like it trips over itself (although is fine with playback) happens with windvd creator 2 and 3.

    but with others like sony vegas the sound is fine.

    during recording i dont get the lines which are only on the moving parts like a car and a hand etc and they are thick bands or i could call them "tracks" like from a tractor ? lol

    now when i have used the top option in virtualdubmod for deinteralcing it does cure the thick bands but only to the extent that you can easily see faint lines going downwards on the whole visual video instead of the specific parts....you can only see this happening though when you full screen the video (its played on a 20" asus lcd)

    the capturing hardware is a canopus advc -300 with the following settings

    on the back with the mode switchs

    swich 1
    1-5 off
    6-8 on

    switch 2
    1-2 on
    3 off
    4-5 on
    6-7 not in use
    8 on

    my system setup is as follows
    quad core Q6600
    2GB (2x1GB) DDR2 memory modules
    watercooled
    2x750GB Seagate sata
    1x350GB Seagate sata

    Leave a comment:


  • GrassValley_BH
    replied
    It sounds like what you're seeing isn't interlacing artifacts then. Maybe it's decoding latency (shows up like fat "bands" of horizontally offset video), or it could be something else.

    What're the specs on your system?

    Leave a comment:


  • mathewlisett
    replied
    im tryign ther following.

    windvd creator (which has no options at all except the capture for,mat so thats dv -avi.

    canpous edious is rubbish ...cant even get that thing started

    nero...no options either so i gave up on that one

    just tried sony vegas tonight and found that had a deinterlacing function...yet that didnt seem to fix the isue which was strange.

    although i have foudn that in virtualdubmod in the filters there is a deinterlacing function, but doesnt do the job proeperly

    Leave a comment:


  • GrassValley_BH
    replied
    What software are you editing with?

    Leave a comment:


  • mathewlisett
    replied
    no im into capturing programs and other items encoding and cropping in high quality and then uploading to some sites im on so hence why i need to get rid of the interlacing.

    Leave a comment:


  • kbosward
    replied
    What do you want to do with your captured video? Do you want to burn it to a DVD disc and play it on your TV? If so, then there is nothing wrong. The DVD will be okay.

    The lines you are seeing on your computer only happen because your computer monitor doesn't like interlaced video. This is normal.

    If you only ever want to play back your captured video on your computer, then I suggested using VideoLAN or Media Player Classic. These will de-interlace the video on-the-fly during playback. Your computer may already also have a software DVD player which should do the same thing.

    Ken.

    Leave a comment:


  • mathewlisett
    replied
    ok so is there any software that enables deinterlacing, as isnt that what helps get rid of the lines as thats interlaced if im correct.

    Leave a comment:


  • GrassValley_BH
    replied
    What you're seeing is typical of interlaced video playback on a progressive display.

    The only reason why you usually don't see it on software DVD players as well is because most software DVD players will deinterlace the image for you.

    If you create a DVD or other output and play it back on a normal tube-based TV, it'll play fine. It'll also look like "normal" TV (what "normal" looks like will depend on the device) on a LCD or Plasma TV as well.

    Leave a comment:


  • mathewlisett
    replied
    im not tryign to do anything , its captured like that, hence me wanting to get it sorted so i dont have tha noyign lines happening.

    and the audio isnt an issue just something i pointed out.

    well ive tried canpous edius which in my view isnt easy to use and ive given up on it, intervideo dvd creator 3 and 4 captures ok and plays audio with it...just the interlaced issue is there, and they are the only 2 so far that allows audio and video whilst recording, nero plays whilst recoding just not audio but still interlaced issue.

    right just tried that software, although rth capturing is easy enough, there was an option to deinterlace .

    so i actually tried it with yes and it on NO.

    and it made no difference.
    Last edited by mathewlisett; 12-11-2007, 03:02 AM.

    Leave a comment:

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