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Old 11-26-2013, 02:09 PM   #1
istvan
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Default Edius 6.5 with DaVinci Resolve 10 Lite -. Workflow

Hi,

i would like to use dVR10L at the next project, where we use ninja 2 to record DNxHD footage. FullHD 220Mbits.

I have read this doc: http://www.grassvalley.com/docs/Appl...DaVinci_AN.pdf

If I understand it, this seems to work as follows:

- raw editing in Edius
- AAF Export from Edius
- Color Grading
- XML Export from dVR10
etc.

This workflow shows how it works with 4K footage.

Does somebody have a FullHD Workflow where also AVCHD or MPEG files could be color graded. I think dVR should import also FullHD files.

Thank you for your help,

Regards

I.
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Old 11-26-2013, 05:21 PM   #2
Liverpool TV
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Try converting your footage to Cine Form, this will act like an intermediate that both Edius and Resolve will see. Then go to Resolve from Edius using AAF that's linked to the CF media.

Maybe do a quick simple edit with just three clips, to see how it works for you.
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Old 11-26-2013, 06:46 PM   #3
istvan
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Thank you.

This can be way how to "batch" it:

http://www.eoshd.com/content/10531/c...d-mark-iii-raw

Regards,

I.
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Old 11-26-2013, 07:45 PM   #4
Liverpool TV
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Yes, that is a way of working with the CF codec. In that example it is being used because the DNG file would be very difficult to work with in its raw form.

Although DNxHD should work between Edius and Resolve. I only suggested CF because you mention other formats that won't work between Edius and Resolve.

For instance, Resolve will not see certain h264 or MP4 files but Edius will.

Maybe you should try and convert one NXxHD, one MPEG2 and one MP4/h264, into CF. Then do a quick edit with Edius and export via AAF with linked media to Resolve.

Here are a couple of replies to a similar thread, which may be of some help.




For future projects you may want to consider an intermediate that both Edius and Resolve see. If you use a camera codec that both see, then you won't need an intermediate. As you are using HQ, you are either ingesting or transcoding. That being the case, you won't change your workflow or increase preparation time too much using another intermediate.

You may want to try CineForm. It has a number of advantages over HQ and HQX, not least of all greater compatibility outside of Edius. It also has great initial grade and look options that are controlled by metadata. You can even switch between First Light and Edius, with both open, making changes to the CF clips in FL that Edius sees without rendering.

You can use CF in both Edius and Resolve, and use linked media in either an EDL or AAF from Edius to go to Resolve. It's similar to Matt Scott's Red workflow.



Yes Dave, it would be great if HQX was more transportable. Even better if it was upgraded to carry the metadata of RAW files or become a container. It's a pity really, the lack of industry adoption for the GV codecs. I have you used them for many years and they are perfect.

The CF codec is great, and is about the best option at the moment for Edius productions to pass through to other post processes, especially Resolve. If you use the extra Resolve plug, it can even see any initial First Light passes in the CF metadata. There are even some cameras that use CF for recording.

CF is also a great option for using as an intermediate for a mixed source codec project, or even for a single source codec. You can do initial first pass grades and looks to the files that are transcoded in to CF. These initial grades are all none destructive metadata commands, and they carry through to anything that sees the CF codec, in realtime, and more importantly in Edius. It is even possible to get a finished look/colour grade from editing the CF files in First Light, or whatever the newer application is called.

This is really important for Edius users and is by far the most flexible solution for extra grading of Edius projects, or any other compatible NLE for that matter. The big deal is that, the clips can be graded as they sit in the Edius timeline. Say you have Edius open in one window and First light in another. As you are going through your Edius timeline and see a clip you want to grade, you simply open it up in First light, make your changes, and when you switch back to Edius it updates the picture/clip immediately showing the new look/grade. This is due to the way CF only needs meta changes to change the look of the clips.

While it is not as good as editing in program directly or via plug ins. It is really quick, works, and allows further processing in other post applications. The real advantage over this workflow as opposed to any other, is that. You can chop and change your edit even past so called colour lock, to make last minute unforeseen changes. All without disturbing the Edius timeline and without any rendering of intermediate files or destructive rendering to your HQ and HQX files.

Put it another way, that is a real world pain. You have either a complex composite edit or a simple frame resize in Edius, or anything else in the Edius timeline that has changed the framing of the source clip. If you then want to grade these parts, there is really no way other than to group the composites in to a single render, or render any other frame altered source clip. You then import and colour these clips in something else and reimport them back. Then say you change your edit by a couple of frames, or do any resizing, or their is a last minute creative change. You will have to repeat this process all over again.

Now if the above scenario is carried out with CF clips in Edius. It is a simple matter of opening the source clips in FL, running parallel with Edius being open. Make your look/colour changes in FL, then switch back to Edius, and your new changes are all there to your clips in place within complex composites or any other frame size changes edits.

It may not be the most elegant or best solution. But it is very fast, and most importantly is either free or vey inexpensive. I am quite surprised at not seeing anything on the forum with regard to this process.

While I would love for the GV codecs to be more industry recognised, and maybe have metadata functionality like the CF codec. I have been using Edius since Canopus, and if Thompson and or Grass Valley have not been able to sway the industry either. Then history would suggest that this may never happen.
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Old 11-26-2013, 08:19 PM   #5
More4K
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Just don't forget that even if it looks like magic, it's not.
All metadata insertion in CF files need CPU resource, but it's quite well multithreaded, so on modern machine it all works well on HD files (even if processing is done at float precision).
You can even overlay comments, scopes etc :)
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Old 11-26-2013, 10:25 PM   #6
istvan
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Thank you very much.

At the moment I am still hunting for software being able to convert P2 and AVCHD files in Cineform.

The only one I have found was Cineform HDlink Premium.

Regards,

I.

EDIT: DNxHD seems to be easier to handle. Both DV and EDIUS can read it and there is also a freeware (5DtoRGB) which can decode it.

Last edited by istvan; 11-27-2013 at 12:04 AM.
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Old 11-27-2013, 11:07 AM   #7
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Fwiw, I use Avid's DNxHD for an intermediate where necessary. You can download the Quicktime codec from Avid and it works just fine in both Edius and Resolve.

And don't forget that you don't necessarily have to use the AAF workflow prescribed in the Grass Valley doc you linked to.

You could simply export a flat file of your finished edit, targeting a Resolve compatible intermediate codec, and then cut that up in Resolve using it's Scene Detect function (or by using the "Pre-Conformed EDL" option together with a simple EDL of your timeline exported from Edius)

Or you could choose to use AAF but have the AAF exporter compress your used footage to a Resolve compatible intermediate codec as part of the export,rather than pointing at your original (but incompatible) media.

Cheers
Andy
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Old 11-27-2013, 01:37 PM   #8
Liverpool TV
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You would be surprised at how often Andy's suggestion of scene detection actually happens. It works really well for hard cut drama type edits. It also works well to apply dynamic changes across things like dissolves or key framed FX clips. You may find that this option gets you out of other messes and not just with Resolve or colour grading.

For the purpose of grading or for doing FX work, I would strongly suggest that you are careful in using embedded transcoded footage to get from one place to another. Doing this will only add another step of degradation to your footage, unless you use uncompressed. Some codecs like HQ are brilliant and very similar visually to uncompressed, and lend themselves to being thrown about quite heavily in post, as long as the other post apps can read it. Other NLE specific codecs are not quite as robust as HQ when being pushed about.


It may well be worth your while in looking into an intermediate codec, that can be transported between all the post applications that you are likely to use, without the need for unnecessary re-encoding. This way you will hold the quality of your initial encode all the way through post, until you have to make destructive changes such as colour and FX.

If you are going to be dealing with raw or log type files, you will have to be careful to not destroy their attributes by transcoding to an intermediate that losses the ability to read the attributes. While using such intermediates is fine if you plan on only using them as proxies for speed, and then re-conform for the master. It is quite usual to want to stay online for the whole post process, this is were you have to be careful over using an intermediate to encapsulate raw and special log type source information.

BTW. If using any codecs that require QT to resolve them, maybe the Avid ones. You may want to run some test on gamma, to make sure it is the same when moving the files between apps and platforms. Maybe things have changed but I could never use Avid codecs properly when moving in and out of Edius, due to the gamma shifting.

Last edited by Liverpool TV; 11-27-2013 at 01:42 PM. Reason: Additional info.
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